Military History Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jorod74, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. jorod74

    jorod74 Psycholagnist (Ret.)

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    I got a military history question.

    in this day and age of instant news and everything is available via :google ,
    Why don't we have modern military personalities that stand out like we have in the past?

    in school, i learned about 20 year old Civil War colonels and generals, about soldiers who stood out from the rest.
    American Revolution, 1812, Spanish-American, WWI and WWII....but the numbers of outstanding personalities' numbers start to dwindle from Korean War on till today.

    Honestly, i have heard more about Pat Tillman's parents than the man himself.

    Sgt. York, Audie Murphy, McCain and Stockdale of Vietnam....but where are the modern historical figures? From the 80s till today, i don't know of any, really except for maybe Schwarzkopf. But i don't see him as being a standout, either.

    let me add, this isn't political. and please no answers that involve name calling.

    Just wondering if i am missing something or history hasn't spoken yet.
     
  2. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan www.megamoonman.com TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think that's part of your answer right there. That, and all the technological advances in how we wage war have made the stand-out war heros of the past somewhat...obsolete.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  3. JetsAndHeels

    JetsAndHeels Banned

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    Modern warfare means more modern ways to fight. This means technology can sometimes cause older tactics to take a backseat. The wars you mentioned, especially the older ones like the Revolutionary War and the the War of 1812 and the Civil War, all required leaders who knew the lay of the land and the conditions and how to best use their surroundings to their advantage...one thing that comes to my mind instantly is the struggle to take Little Round Top during the Battle at Gettysburg in 1863.

    Warfare today still relies on these things no doubt, and leaders are always needed, but with technology at hand and being so advanced, things are planned and executed so much differently. I think that is why you hear more about our forces as a whole, rather than individual leaders.
     
  4. Spekkio

    Spekkio Master of War

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    Hm. Major military figures from the 1980s through today? Well, part of the reason for the lack is that we haven't had a lot of major wars of late. That isn't to say that the ones that have happened in said timeframe weren't significant or the lives lost weren't important - but World War II dwarves everything. Also, your point re: history not having spoken yet - very, very true.

    That said, here are some names that come to mind (without looking):
    -Norman Schwarzkopf
    -Colin Powell - the Powell Doctrine is named for him; he also made the "Pottery Barn" rule famous.
    -Col. Oliver North (you didn't say they had to be good)
    -George W. Bush, for whom the Bush Doctrine is named
     
  5. megatronkicksas

    megatronkicksas Well-Known Member

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    Because the wars we are fighting now are not techically wars they are a mission to take out dictator and establish a Democratic government in Iraq while in Afghanistan it is a defence against the taliban both wars don't really involve massive involvement of the generals most the recent moves in the miltary have been done by the president. Let's take the wars you named and talk about the Generals and what they did to become engraved in hitory.

    The American Revolution: the Major player of this war was George Washington who took control of the military after several failed battles and latter because the first president of the united states.

    War of 1812: The major player of this war was Andrew Jackson the General who won the only battle for the Americans at the battle of New Orleans with the aid of pirates. Later on threw out the years after the failure that was the war of 1812 Andrew Jackson became upset with the amount of corruption in American government and ran for the 7th President of the united states. This campaign was a harsh brutal one worse then the campaign for the Democratic spot in 08' in which there were instances of the candidates making fun of their opponents mothers and wives. Due to a bad move on the part of Jacksons rival He was able to win the presidency. However with this win only a few short months after being the elected candidate his wife died and he blamed it on the mudslinging done by his rival. In one instance his rival called his wife a whore. While in Presidency Jackson was the president to have a cabinet and the first and only president to completely get rid of the national debt and got rid of the corrupt national bank however there also was the trail of tears, the forced migration of the Indians into the west where many died. Due to the many accomplishments of his life his face was put on he 20$ bill, due to the trail of tears tho many Indians choose not use a 20$ bill.

    The civil war: The major player of the civil war war was Grant. After the complete failure of the union army under many countless Generals Lincolns last hope was Grant. While Lee kicked the ever loving crap out of the union and won almost all of his battles the miracle of the civil war was the battle at Gettysburg where Lee made a bad move and marched right into the unions line of fire causing one the greatest loss of life in a battle in American history. While the south almost all battles the North was able to pull off miracle and win. Grant had eventually decided to run for the 18th president of the united states. While his presidency wasn't very successful his aid in the civil war is what his legacy will forever be.

    (I'm skipping WW1 for a reason)

    WW2 There were two major Generals during WW2, Eisenhower and Patton. Eisenhower was the great General who lead the American forces to Normandy then to Germany while Patton was the great General who lead his forces up from Italy controlled Africa to the island of Sicily (one of the greatest turning points) and into Italy to take over Italy further weakening the Axis Powers. After WW2 Eisenhower ran for president and won while Patton went off to lead the fight in Korea where he was killed by misfire on his own base.

    In short the reason why you don't hear of the any other famous generals is because all other wars involving the U.S were Failures accept for Senator Charlie Wilson who helped the Afghanies win their war against the U.S.S.R.

    DISCLAIMER: this post is not political in any way, it is mearly for the use of history.
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Not technically wars?

    Tell me more!
     
  7. Lance Halberd

    Lance Halberd oh hai

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    Finally, some excitement for today!
     
  8. CdnShockwave

    CdnShockwave The Prince of Poses TFW2005 Supporter

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    I'm soooooo tempted to post a vid about the War of 1812. But it probably falls into the whole n&p no-no... funny though it is.
     
  9. megatronkicksas

    megatronkicksas Well-Known Member

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    The Iraq "war" was originally to get Saddam Huessan out of power after that was done the next thing we had to do was institute a Democratic government. So technically we are not therefor a war we are there for diplomatic reasons.

    Not political, historical.
     
  10. Lance Halberd

    Lance Halberd oh hai

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    Wait, what's the reason WWI was skipped? Not enough American involvement?
     
  11. megatronkicksas

    megatronkicksas Well-Known Member

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    The French and British were already winning the war against the Germans, our involvement just pushed them the little bit forward to crush them. So with or with out our help they would have won due to the use of trench warfare and the diminishing numbers of the Germans.
     
  12. Keiichitron

    Keiichitron Not a physicist, dammit

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    huh? Patton died in 1945 in a car accident.
     
  13. megatronkicksas

    megatronkicksas Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I'm wrong, that's what my history teacher told me.
     
  14. Keiichitron

    Keiichitron Not a physicist, dammit

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    you should get your money back.
     
  15. battleboy

    battleboy Admiral of Awesomness

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    Patton never made it to Korea... He died from injuries sustained in an accident while in Germany.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Douglas MacArthur did lead at least a portion of the Korean Conflict.

    As far as the post WWII conflict not technically being wars,that is correct. They were "police actions." Congress never formally declared war in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, the Persian Gulf, etc.
     
  16. Deceptikitty

    Deceptikitty all about the hasubandos

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    Oh, the public school system.
     
  17. Lance Halberd

    Lance Halberd oh hai

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    I see what your saying, but in reference to the OP's question, wouldn't General Pershing count as a modern military personality?
     
  18. battleboy

    battleboy Admiral of Awesomness

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    almost forgot... as far as not recognizing troops as heroes, I think that the general population has become apathetic about what out boys (and gals) are doing in these places. Sure they support the troops, but most in words only not deeds.

    I say they are all heroes, and the ones that go well above and beyond should be recognized on a national level.

    Shameless plug for our troops... Go to Uso.org and help them out or google "letters to the troops" or "adopt a soldier" if you're interested in supporting our hard working boys.
     
  19. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Ah! I would continue with you, but it appears you suffer from reliance on a somewhat questionable education.

    So the only thing that's a war is something that a political body has declared as one? Unless Congress says so, it's just a police action? For funsies, as it were?
     
  20. battleboy

    battleboy Admiral of Awesomness

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    I taught public school for one year... I couldn't take the blatant ignorance on both the sides of the teachers and students...

    I got in trouble because I was failing students...students who had refused to do work all year. I wasn't terribly upset when they didn't renew my contract.

    Most horrifying year of my life.

    Didn't mean to go off topic... The school system is a hot button issue for me...

    Support the Troops!
     

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