Maximals and Predacons...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by SaberPrime, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Beast Wars and Beast Machines has always been my favorite series not only because I grew up with them but because they were the most well wrighten with a memerable cast.

    What this topic is about is why the Predacons have so many other shows than the Maximals do.

    To start off with Maximals originated in Beast Wars and ended in Beast Machines.

    Predacons however actully originated from G1 and so did their activation code for that matter.

    Maximals say maximize to transform. Predacons say Terrorize. There's a spoof on you tube that put it best when they said "Why don't they just call themselfs Terrorcons?"

    Aside from the Predacon name being used way more offten I also wondered why durring Beast Wars they made a point to mention how they were Decendents of the G1 cast and that some of them took their names from the old characters but at no point did anyone ever talk about the G1 Predacons. It's kinda like how Star Trek never talks about the Origial series Klingons.

    I kinda wander, at some point after the Great War did Razorclaw take over as leader of the Decepticons, is that why the decendents are all Predacons? I mean why else would the future decendents all call themselfs by the name of a sub-group. And where the heck did the name Maximal come from? There were no Maximals in G1.

    Rampage who takes the form of a crab even fails to mention anything about the original Rampage who was the only G1 Predacon with a BW Counterpart. They don't say if they're the same character like Ravage or if he's a new character like Optimus and Megatron.

    To add to the confusion, they change what exactly a Predacon is in each series that has them...

    In G1 the Predacons were just a Sub-faction like the Terrorcons, Stunticons, Combaticons, and all thoughs others. There's really nothing special about them.

    In BW the Maximals and Predacons were decendents of the Autobots and Decepticons. They are shown to be much smaller and use less Energon than the Autobots and Decepticons did. So they're basically like thoughs tiny cars that we see now days that no one wants to drive.

    In R.I.D. when they were creating the Decepticons one of the stasis pods allmost scaned a bird but hit a shuttle insted. As this was happening Sky-byte mentioned how scanning an animal would make him a Predacon rather than a Decepticon. Megatron/Galvatron had also stated when he got his upgrade (otherwise known as a new paint job) that Decepticons were more powerful than Predacons. As a toy both Megatron and Galvatron were sold as Predacons but on the show Galvatron was suppose to be a Decepticon. Both Megatron and Galvatron had beast and vehicle modes. So from what I gather if your alt mode is a vehicle you're Decepticon, if your alt mode is a beast you're Predacon, if you have both animal and vehicle alt modes than it depends on how strong you are.

    In Armada though he was never actully on the cartoon a Repaint of TM Megatron was named "Predacon" in the toy line kinda like how Dinobot and Insecticon have both been used as a single character's name when they were originally sub-factions.

    And finally in Animated the Episode "Predacons Rising" which is nothing like I thought it would be, showed Wasp's upgrade into a Technorganic wasp. From what I can tell though they never actully used the term Predacon except for the title Animated Predacons are just Technorganic Decepticons. Note that is different from just having a best mode as non of the Dinobots were technorganics. The Dinobots were built to resemble dinosaurs but were completly mechanical. Blackarachnia, Waspinator, and Sari were a mix or robotic and organic material.

    This kinda makes me wander... in the R.I.D. continuity would a good guy with a beast mode be a Maximal? Don't know, never happened.

    In Animated, could Sari be a Maximal?

    Now Maximal characters have appeared in other series. Rhinox did have a small cameo in Armada. I'm fairly sure he was the only one from the toy line that made it on the show. The other two were Cheetor and Airrazor though Airrazor was sold as an Autobot her toy was molded with a Decepticon insignia on it. Great job Hasbro.

    And of course, though not named on Screen a character called Rattletrap appeared in an episode who was obviously modeled after BW Rattrap. And Predacons Rising had the beast modes of the original Axalon crew looking at Blackarachnia and Waspinator.

    Also going into Beast Machines, why did they create a 3rd group of villains when they could of just as easily called them Decepticons again or continued calling them Predacons. I mean the Japanese Beast Wars had Vehicle mode Predacons and Dawn of the futures past also shows their Cybertron forms were vehicles. Never really got why they changed the Maximal insignia either. Vehicons is just a lame name and there's really nothing that seperates them from the Predacons and Decepticons that came before them.
     
  2. Single Elegant Machine

    Single Elegant Machine Purity and order.

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    Edit: Oops, looks like I accidentally posted twice. Silly me.
     
  3. Single Elegant Machine

    Single Elegant Machine Purity and order.

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    Most Maximals and Predacons in the G1 continuity family had vehicular alternate modes on Cybertron. What separates them from their ancestors is their construct--the Great Upgrade altered their shells (downsizing being one example) to augment their energy efficiency.

    Timelines provides further backstory tying the Predacons to their G1 forebears, stating that Razorclaw devised the faction following the defeat of the Decepticons during the Great War. However, since multiple sources posit disparate origin stories, it is up to you to take from them as you wish.

    As for the Vehicons--it was Megatron's intent to found a new (albeit mindless), united faction to supplant the squabbling, divisive individual identities represented by Maximal and Predacon alike. Moreover, the fact that they were produced from the recycled shells of felled Maximals and Predacons symbolizes his purported evolutionary progress.

    Except for the fact that they're all mindless and mass-produced, right? Vehicons are non-sentient, sparkless drones; generals taken aside.
     
  4. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    Yes they did. In the DS9 episode 'trouble with tribbles' Worf observed some TOS Klingons and also in a few Enterprise episodes it was discussed. Sorry can't remember the names of the episodes but Brent Spiner was in it!

    Sorry to go OT.

    As for the links between factions in TF canon, I'd certainly be happy to fill in some of the gaps if I could. Anyone else got any info..?
     
  5. Shockwave 75

    Shockwave 75 Master of the Rules.

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    Really? Because sometimes it seems like you haven't watched it at all, or at least didn't pay much attention.

    Like Auto Morph said, they made a joke about it on DS9 and on Enterprise they flat out showed us how the Klingons lost their forehead ridges, and set up how they probably got them back.

    Here is where I think yoiu weren't paying attention. Rampage's name isn't Rampage, it's Protoform X. He was created in a Maximal experiment to replicate Starscream's immortal spark, but was completely evil and uncontrolable. Megatron is the person who named him Rampage due to his style of combat and unpredictable nature.

    Really? The Predacons were only the best and most feared combiner team of them all. They work together so well that Predaking is the most stable of all the gestalts.

    I've found that the most prevailent theory is that they are a blending of the Micromaster and Pretender technologies.

    I won't get in to the debate over whether the Botcon fiction is actually cannon or not, but the Vehicons make perfect sense. They're not Predacons or Decepticons because outside of the 5 Generals they have no personalities, no sparks, they are not alive. Just remote controlled battle bots.
    As for changing the Maximal insignia; new series, new insignia I guess. One could argue that due to their Oracle upgrade they are no longer the same type of beings as the normal Maximals so they get their own unique faction symbol.

    Oh, and it's wonder, not wander. One means to think about something the other means to roam about aimlessly.
     
  6. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    Let's pull back the curtain for a second.

    The terms "Maximals" and "Predacons" are valuable trademarks for Hasbro which they do not want to lose, hence the reason they pop up all the time. They don't want these words trademarked by a competing company. The Beast Wars legacy is too important to let lay fallow for too long, and I have no doubt we'll see more BW in the future. Predacons, having an origin in G1, is especially valuable as it can be applied to more than one faction or character group and has a legacy that extends back to cover every generation of TF fan.

    Hasbro was extraordinarily lucky that they didn't lose trademarks on Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Autobots, Decepticons, and other important terms between the end of G2 and the resurgence of Transformers later on. I think they've learned to keep these terms in constant circulation from now on.
     
  7. Shockwave 75

    Shockwave 75 Master of the Rules.

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    All true. Considering how long and hard they had to fight to get Bumble Bee and Shockwave back, they've learned their lesson. Maybe one day we'll get Hot Rod back too.
     
  8. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

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    Speaking on the trademarks.

    Why not have the Maximals, Predacons, and Vehicons as sub groups with the Autobots and Decepticons as the main group in a series? I would think doing that would solve the rights issues.

    Just make Optimus Primal to Primal Prime and make him Optimus Prime's brother. Make BW Megatron to Galvatron as a general of the Predacons and Vehicons.
     
  9. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually very happy that we haven't seen the Maximals, Predacons or Vehicons much, if at all, since the end of the Beast era. It helps maintain the uniqueness of this particular era. Likewise, I'm glad that so many of the names don't easily transfer to new characters like Rhinox and Cheetor and Terrorsaur. I like that we haven't gotten a million homages to BW and that we don't have to distinguish between BW Tigatron and TFA Tigatron or Armada Tigatron. Beast Wars has been very lucky in this respect towards maintaining its singular identity.
     
  10. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

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    True, but the same could be said about the Autobots and Decepticons. Having them on series after series would take away from their uniqueness of from the first series they were on. Yet for some reason Hasbro still use them instead of doing new factions for each series.

    As for homages, if they made them. I'll buy them on spot. The Maximals and Predacons are the factions I grew up with. If G1 fans can have their homages, I dont see why I cant have the chance for a MP Jetstorm or Optimus Primal either.
     
  11. Xaedrahk

    Xaedrahk Prime-otions!

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    Between "historical videos", the Witwicky family, Blackarachnia's existence, Oil Slick's "Cosmic Rust", Wreck-Gar being voiced by Al Yankovic, and the "beast mode" cameos at the end of the mentioned episode; Animated was really a case of "Let's see how many easter eggs we can give the fans here."

    It may drop a ton of fun references, but because it's outside the G1-Beast Wars Era-Beast Machines timeline, most of the minor name/term drops tend to mean little/nothing in relation to what's come before.

    (Figured I might as well drop the explanation here for people to read.)
     
  12. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    We can only hope. I often wonder if the older fans' reactions to Hot Shot would have been different if he had been called Hot Rod.

    Autobots and Decepticons are institutions at this point. I think it would be beneficial to branch out in another few years and do some new factions (always important to keep the monster from eating itself), but we'll always go back to the G1 well.

    As for Masterpiece versions of Beast Wars characters, give it another five years or so and you may just get your wish. 2015 will be the 20th anniversary of Beast Wars, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the forward thinkers at Hasbro are already cooking something up. Kids who were between 5-10 years old during the Beast era will be hitting their late 20s, right at that magic age where disposable income rushes headlong into childhood nostalgia.
     
  13. Single Elegant Machine

    Single Elegant Machine Purity and order.

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    I concur. We should have homages to BW and BM, MP or otherwise.
     
  14. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    They don't talk about it with outsiders. LOL!
     
  15. chrisr291

    chrisr291 Master of the Unknown

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    1. You guys lost me on the Star Trek references (STAR WARS FTW!)
    2. BW Predacons have nothing to do with G1 Predacons so I don't see why they need to reference them at all
    3. Beast Wars needs to take over the Transformer universe. I'm tired of GM gas guzzlers parading around as Transformers! Give me Transformers that don't need fuel from the Middle East! I WANT MY TRANSFORMERS TO RUN OFF BANANAS, GIVE US OPTIMUS PRIMAL!!!!!!

    Admit it, a Beast Wars movie would be insane.
     
  16. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    You'll remember that during G2 they changed the faction symbols. And then, of course, there was Beast Wars, then Beast Machines. So from 1993-2000 Hasbro was experimenting a lot with moving away from the Autobots and Decepticons.
    I do get what you're saying though, and I agree. I'm not so concerned about reusing the faction names, since that's just one of the big mainstays of Transformers, but I do find it annoying at times that we constantly have to distinguish between Megatrons and Optimi (and everyone else). I'd like a little more originality.
     
  17. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    Not sure how you can say that. When It is stated a number of times that Beastwars is the G1 future. So it may have no direct connection but it would be stupid to think that an entire faction names it self Predacons and no one knows that there was a very powerful sub faction of the Decepticons with that same name.
    I prefer to think that the history of the predacons goes all the way back to the G1 combiner but if it's just in honour of them or something that's cool too. But to say that they have no link at all is silly IMHO
     
  18. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    That Joke in DS9 was "We don't like to talk about it." That hardly qualifies as even the line in the show addmitted they don't talk about it.


    Maybe before accuseing someone of not paying attention you should check back yourself first. Protoform X was not his name. The best way to exsplain what the title was is to compair him with Wolverine who was originally called "Weapon X" it's the name of the project that created them not their actual names.


    Technically Megatron was a Vehicon as well so there were 6 not 5.

    And commanding an army of drones that look exactly like you, why does that sound familiar? Did you forget about Scourge and Cyclonus?

    I was in special ed from the 3rd grade. I do what I can to self correct so please don't make a habbit of pointing out my mistakes all the time. I tend to take offense to it, especially when you seem to have gone out of your way to bold and italic a single letter I got wrong. That was a bit unnessisary.
     
  19. Roanstalker

    Roanstalker Great Baan Gaan fan

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    Even still. He did not have a proper name until Megatron came along.
     
  20. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    I find it funny that all BW Predacons that share G1 Predacon names are crabs. (Rampage, Razorclaw) Once I considered the possibility of kitbashing three more BW crabs into the remaining names.
     

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