Matrix Plot Hole?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Fifam94, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Fifam94

    Fifam94 GO AIR FORCE

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    Alright so. .. Remember back in ROTF when General Sharpe asks Optimus "The Fallen? Meaning what?" during his banter with Galloway? Well Optimus replies with "Origin unknown. The only recorded history of our race was contained within the Allspark, and lost with its destruction." This leads to two plot holes.

    1. During the final battle between the Fallen and Optimus, the fallen declares "Die, like your brothers!", with Optimus replying "They were your brothers too!". How could he have known that, if he claimed that his past history was lost with the Allspark, and didn't have prior knowledge of the 13 primes?

    2. Given the previous arguement, how could Sentinel have known about the Matrix of leadership when Optimus offers it to him? It's not like he knew about the 13 primes either. . .

    So yeah, sorry for my rambling, just thought I'd share. Also please don't reply "He T0LD hIm OffSCRreeen!!", because that seems to be the response to every plot hole.
     
  2. SamWitwickyGirl

    SamWitwickyGirl Banned

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    1.) It was simply because Optimus was TOLD stories. just like everyone else. Sentinel prime could have told him for all we know! but he just never really knew too much about him and his origin. and also, now that he was a dcon making evil plans for earth, he could have recieved a new name "the fallen" or Optimus could have not known about him being a decepticon leader..

    2.) Sentinel is really old though. Couldnt he know?

    (IM A PLOTHOLE GENIUS BY THE WAY)
     
  3. Rogzilla

    Rogzilla Well-Known Member

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    1-The Knoweldge of the Allspark was inside Sam. When he was given the Matrix by the Primes, that knowledge passed into it, which would then pass into Optimus when the Matrix merged with his Spark.

    2-How do we know what Sentinel did and did not know? He was the Prime before Optimus, he could have known things that he didn't share with Optimus, something he has a precedent of doing.

    Also, in the comic prequels, it is made clear that Optimus DOES know about the Primes, he just doesn't know about The Fallen.

    EDIT: Oh, and he was told this by Sentinel.
     
  4. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    before i start its not Sharp but general moshower (spelling)

    1. After Sam was ressurected all the knownledge of the allsaprk was transported into the matrix itself, so after Optimus was ressurected all the knowlegde the cube had went into his mind

    THIS! btw

    2. Sentinel always knew of the History of his ancestors so its likely he knew of the matrix aswell, also Sentinel was going to find the harvester before or after teleporting cybertron to Earth, so that means he knew of the Matrix all along
     
  5. Infiltrait0rN7

    Infiltrait0rN7 Deceptibot

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    THIS. Definitely this.
     
  6. decepticon2020

    decepticon2020 Best there is @ what I do

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    2. ALL Primes know about the Matrix of Leadership. How do you think Sentinel became a Prime? He wasn't one of the first 13, so it's obvious the Matrix converted him into a Prime just like Optimus and Rodimus.
     
  7. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    the movieverse matrix despite beign the same thing as the other matrix, here it cant corvert anybody in a prime. also the Matrix was hidden before Sentinel became the leader of the cybertronians

    in the movieverse, a Prime cannot be made, the cybertronian must be born as a Prime
     
  8. decepticon2020

    decepticon2020 Best there is @ what I do

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    This makes no sense. Optimus wasn't born a Prime, he was born as Orion Pax.
     
  9. GFH

    GFH The G Squad

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    Not in this continuity.

    EDIT: Though I've always thought of Pax being the name for a younger Prime. (But that's not canon.)
     
  10. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    he was born as Orion pax in g1, Prime and whatver continuty he's orion, but in the movie he was born as Optimus Prime. but he had no clue he was a prime till few years later
     
  11. jackgaughan

    jackgaughan Interner Soldier

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    I've got a question.

    When Optimus was killed there was a giant hole in his chest (presumably where the matrix would soon be) How could Sam put it in there? Did it rejuvinate Primes torso before it reignited him?
     
  12. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    I thought the Matrix was created on Earth when the Primes did their group hug thing in front of the tomb entrance. If it had been lying on Earth for thousands of years, how would Sentinel know anything about the Matrix - at least until it revived him and gave him an intel dump?
     
  13. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    the comics state Sentinel knew the full history of the dynasty of Primus, which measn he probably knew of the matrix aswell

    also the Matrix was created by the Allspark itself for help the primes to harvest suns. if a fake matrix is used the harvester will exploded
     
  14. GFH

    GFH The G Squad

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    Noooooooooooo...

    It was made on Cybertron as a key for the solar harvesters from the Allspark.
    Or something.
     
  15. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    Yeah, you're right. I had to dust off the Blu Ray and watch the scene in question.
     
  16. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    its not mentioned in the movie itself, Only in Defiance comic book and the comic/Novel adaptations of ROTF.
     
  17. bumblebee22

    bumblebee22 Well-Known Member

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    well optimus is a prime and the fallen is also a prime so if the other primes were optimus brothers they were also the fallens brothers
     
  18. emoo

    emoo Well-Known Member

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    In the adaption to ROTF Prime is born a Prime. It even states the reason Megatron is helping the Fallen is he was promised to be made into a Prime by the Fallen. In the final battle in the end Megatron mentions that to Optimus as he and the Fallen fight and Primes reply is Primes are born not made, at which point Megs abandons the Fallen and then the Fallen is killed.
     
  19. batmanprime

    batmanprime Omega-con

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    Orion/Optronix whichever, was the pre-prime Optimus. Meaning as I take it, He was ALWAYS from the lineage of Primes, he just didn't know it. It wasn't until he was Chose or otherwise made aware of this that he became Optimus Prime. Rodimus and Serpentor are as far as I know the only two who were ever actually changed by the matrix. Rodimus was "born" into the lineage and the matrix made Serpentor a prime.
    As far as the knowledge part goes...It states the Allspark contained the only "recorded" knowledge of thier history. Now that's not to say there were no stories and "fairy tales".
    In fact in several continuities Primus and the 13 are considered myths. Unicron is just a story used to scare protoforms.
     
  20. Ultrawave

    Ultrawave Hey look, I have a title

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    Primes are born, not made. Also wrong continuity broski.
     

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