Matrix-Allspark confusion

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TerraDestroyer, Feb 18, 2007.

  1. TerraDestroyer

    TerraDestroyer "Sometimes crazy works."

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    It seems to me that, when watching the Generation 1 film, Prime stated "Soon, I shall be one with the Matrix." As it was later revealed, the Matrix was where the wisdom of ancient Autobots was contained to bring strength and guidance to the current Prime. His statement, however, could have lead to the confusion between the Allspark and the Matrix, which are obviously two totally different things.

    The Beast Wars writers must have assumed that, since the Matrix is a piece of Primus, and the Allspark is Primus's collective spark, that the Matrix was another name for the Allspark. Of course, there was no evidence to support that all Autobots transcended to the "Matrix," since Prime had only indicated that he himself would join the Matrix. In an attempt to add depth to the series, as we all know, the Beast Wars team did indeed invent the concept of the spark well AFTER Generation 1, but one can see where the confusion lies in retrospect. It is such that I feel that the fandom should recognize the "Matrix," as singularily the item of power which becomes fused with the spark of the Prime, and the "Allspark," is the Well of Sparks, and the originator/afterlife of the Transformers, and not get the two confused at all.
     
  2. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    And what the hell was the Oracle? An access to the Allspark or something? MY memory gets fuzzy with Beast Machines.
     
  3. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Just a super computer, a fancy super computer.
     
  4. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Ah... oh wait, was it Vector Sigma? Didn't Tankor get the key to it from there?
     
  5. Nemesis Predaking

    Nemesis Predaking Offical Enforcer WTF@TFW Veteran

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    Well said. Seeing how in Gen 1 "sparks" are referred to as Laser Core's
     
  6. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    Til all are one.
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No, vector sigma and the Oracle are to different things, Tankor/Rhinox used the Oracle to gain access to VS.
    Spamming makes me sad.
     
  8. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Not quite. The bio for the Beast Machines Beast Rider Mechatron references him being able to rip out entire Laser Cores. From that you can infer that a Laser Core is the part of a Transformer that houses and maintains the Spark.
    One of those BM bio writers must have been very G1 savvy, I also caught a reference to "Prime of Justice" on Primal Prime's box.

    But you certainly have a point. The couple of times we see someone go inside the Matrix, we only see former leaders (and Alpha Trion, but maybe he held it at one point). We don't see any other non-leader characters who might be able to offer some advice.

    Now, the Oracle I always thought was a shell program or an interface for Vector Sigma. Something created at some point to make the task of interfacing with the thing easier. You can't just go plugging Alpha Trion or the Matrix into the thing every time you need to access it, after all. Perhaps in the process of making this system, it was influenced by Vector Sigma and given life, thus "becoming" the Oracle.
     
  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I agree that entire paragraph, with the exception of that last statment. The Oracle, as interactive as it is, is not sentient. It is a super computer, it can be hacked, fooled and tampered with, just like any other computer, as shown by Megatron and Tankor/Rhinox.
     
  10. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    Good thing I was not spamming then. If you can't get my point from that one line of the movie then that is not my problem. But don't call me a spammer just because you don't get it.
     
  11. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Everyone knows "Til all are one". What that phrase had to do with the conversation is beyond me.
     
  12. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    Sigh. Till all are one. That implies that all may one day become one. So they all may go to the Matrix. Not just the primes.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Well, why didn't you say so?
     
  14. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    Like I said. Just because you don't get it. Does not make me a spammer. I thought most would understand what that meant.
     
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Dude, I get it, but just saying, "Til all are one" is not sufficient enough to get your point across. I can see now that you explained, it was not really spam, but at the time, it seemed alittle off-topic. Considering, I was focussing then on the Oracle and what not, so your post kinda caught me by surprise.
     
  16. Josh

    Josh Comic Color-guy

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    wEE

    a little TF edjumacation :3
    here's all the info i've gathered on this kinda stuff [take from all kinds of official interpretations of the G1 lore be it cartoon, comics whatever. some of it might obviously conflict being that its taken from different interpretations, but its still an interesting read i think ;) ]:

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Well of All Sparks
    Through its guardian, Alpha Trion, Primus maintained a vigil over his “children,” but his a direct link was severed when Cybertron was invaded by the armies of a marauding alien race. Forced into hiding, Alpha Trion could only watch, helpless, as Cybertronians were slaughtered. The Sparks from each of these casualties of war returned to source, reuniting with the essence of Primus in the Well of All Sparks at the planetary core.



    Chamber of Ancients
    Sworn to protect Cyberton’s ancient heritage, the High Council became the guardians of Vector Sigma, a computer mainframe connected directly to their creator’s consciousness deep within the planet. Housed within the Chamber of Ancients, the vast Matrix Mainframe guides the destiny of the Transformer race. The High Council consults Vector Sigma on matters of policy and law, or when a new leader [or “Prime”] is to be called.


    The Oracle
    Originally a shell program created by the Quintessons to obtain the power of Primus by controlling Vector Sigma. The Oracle merges Vector Sigma with the Matrix, but it removed the will of Vector Sigma and allowed her to become a tool for the Quintessons. When Cybertron fell into Vehicon dominion [Beastmachines], the Oracle program reactivated, but the program no longer functioned as it once did and was far less effective in pacifying the will of Vector Sigma, allowing her to speak to her children through the Oracle. The Oracle sought out Maximal survivors and bequested them with the task of saving Cybertron by seeking balance between its ancient organic origins and its technological aspects. The Oracle also commissioned a team of crusaders known as the Wreckers to seek the Divine Light - a prism which could channel the power of Primus into whoever possesses it.


    The Matrix [The Creation Matrix/The Matrix of Leadership]
    Also known as the Autobot Matrix of Leadership, the Creation Matrix was created by the Transformer God, Primus, who forged it from his own life essence. Since Primus was created in the mirror image of Unicron, he held the ability bestow life whereas Unicron sought to destroy life. Consequently, the Matrix inherited Primus' life-giving divinity.
    The Matrix basks its host with its power -- so much so that Shockwave was able to decapitate Optimus Prime and use the resultant Matrix power in Prime's head to create the Constructicons. The Matrix had a different effect on humans, as was discovered when Optimus Prime transferred the Matrix power in his head over to the human boy Buster Witwicky, in an attempt to keep it out of Decepticon hands. Buster discovered that he could use the power of the Matrix to manipulate anything mechanical. He could disassemble an entire fighter jet with a single thought! This was demonstrated when he stopped, disassembled and reassembled Jetfire -- and later used his Matrix-mental powers to pilot Jetfire back to Decepticon headquarters.
    After Optimus Prime was killed by Megatron, the Autobots placed his body into a funeral barge and deployed it into space according to Autobot custom. It was not known to the Autobots at that time that Prime's body contained the Matrix inside the chest. Prime's old body crashed on a high-gravity world near Cameron Space Control, where the Matrix brought life to two alien creatures -- one an alien cyborg pilot, who became Deathbringer, and the other, an evil insect predator, who became the Matrix Spawn. It later fell into the hands of the Decepticon commander, Thunderwing. During that time, the Matrix became tainted with evil, but its evil aspect was defeated and destroyed by Unicron, restoring the Matrix to its pure state. Optimus Prime then used the Matrix to destroy Unicron.
    During the Transformers Generation 2 saga, the Matrix was used by Starscream so that he could merge his body with that of Warworld. However, Starscream found that the Matrix was beginning to warp his mind and force him to commit acts of compassion and goodness. Sickened by this thought, Starscream rejected the Matrix and happily returned it to Optimus Prime, who in turn used the Matrix to defeat the Swarm.

    The Matrix was also known to contain the combined knowledge and strategies of all Prime's past [thus the "Matrix of Leadership" angle]



    Although the Creation Matrix is the one single force forged from Primus with the ultimate power to bestow life and destroy Unicron, there have been other Lesser Matrices of Leaderships forged. These Matrices were forged from Vector Sigma and bestowed to a select few including: Optimus Primal, Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, Fire Convoy and possibly Optimus Prime from Transformers Armada.
    These Matrices mimic the abilities of the original Creation Matrix. Lio Convoy used his Matrix to create Lio Junior. These Lesser Matrices can also power up their hosts. In order to defeat the titanic Destron known as Majin Zarak, Lio Convoy tapped into the power of his Matrix and was powered-up to Flash Lio Convoy, while Optimus Primal tapped into the power of his Matrix and became Burning Convoy. Together their Matrices formed the powerful Matrix Buster attack which defeated Majin Zarak. Lio Convoy later combined the power of his Matrix with that of Big Convoy's Matrix (which was used to power-up his Big Cannon) to defeat Unicron.
    In Transformers Car Robot (a.k.a. Robots In Disguise), God Fire Convoy (a.k.a. Omega Prime) was powered by Fire Convoy's personal Matrix, which also augmented itself with the God Sword (forged by Brave Maximus) and used to defeat Devil Gigatron (a.k.a. Galvatron). The nature and/or power of Optimus Prime's Matrix in Transformers Armada is yet to be seen.
    Not all Lesser Matrices are good. Like Primus, Unicron also forged some Matrices which were used to manipulate certain Transformers to his dark designs. Unicron was able to control the Predacon known as Galvatron through the Galvamatrix, as well as the Predacon Overlord Shokoract, through the Matrix of Conquest which housed Unicron's Dark Essence itself. One of the incarnations of Nemesis Prime possesses an artifact known as the Dead Matrix which is a black version of Big Convoy's Matrix. The nature of the Dead Matrix has yet to be revealed.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    i dunno

    thats just some of the info i've researched/gathered over time ;D
    theres so much tasty stuff regarding the combined mythos of Transformers

    its all very awesome

    ive got a full 8 paged file thats just full of research and info regarding the mythology behind Transformers. Origins, the original 13, Primus, Unicron, the Matrices, etc

    very awesome stuff


    a pet project of mine was making it all fit together as one large universe. combining all the TF series, tying them all together. I was using the Dreamwave continuity as kind of my skeleton. my backbone for it all since it, like the info i have, took stuff from both the cartoon and comic continuities.
     
  17. Alpha Prime

    Alpha Prime Ten Years Strong

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    AllSpark: The TRANSFORMERS afterlife. The TRANSFORMERS source of life, or, the basic building block of the TRANSFORMERS soul.

    Matrix: A symbolic object of immense power passed on from one AUTOBOT leader to another containing all the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of the AUTOBOT past.

    -Hasbro
     
  18. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I don't think he meant that kind of Matrix.

    I think this thread is done, thanks to Josh's amazing info gathering.
     
  19. Alpha Prime

    Alpha Prime Ten Years Strong

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    What ya mean by that?
     
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    There are two Matrix's. The physical one you mentioned, and the Matrix where all the greatest Autobot heros go when they die. (Like the afterlife/Allspark)

    Also, the Allspark is basicly Primus' spark in a way.
     

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