Mass Shifting theory for the movie-verse continuity

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Tyrannosaur, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Tyrannosaur

    Tyrannosaur 100% Sarcastic Saurian

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    I know some of us noticed some mass shifting in the previous movie (I didn't notice any in the 2nd one) so I came up with a theory of how certain Transformers like Frenzy could mass shift. I'm trying to put this as easy-to-read as possible for some of those here who don't know much about what I'm talking about.

    Has anyone heard of a theoretical Von-Nuemann machine? A popular example of this would be nanotechnology. Something thats considered a Von-Nuemann machine can self replicate.

    What if Transformers are made up of nanobots just like humans are made up of cells? But what if certain Transformers are specialized so that they can mass shift? Frenzy's head was able to turn into a cellphone, what if he had the ability to gain/lose nanobots to increase his size, but only up to a certain point? That would explain how his head could shrink, he simply killed off a few nanobots that made up his head to transform. And when he would transform back he can simply regenerate the same parts he lost.

    Reedman in ROTF is made up of nanobots, I guess spies are specialized like this. A Transformer that can mass shift would be the ultimate infiltraitor. So here's the point I'm trying to make: Certain Transformers are specialized to mass-shift by simply multiplying/Losing the nanobots they are made up of.
     
  2. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    the nano bot theory occured to me a few days ago. i think its valid....enough.
    or maybe their parts expand or something like an accordian (see visual aid below)
    ||||||| --> /\/\/\/
     
  3. Triceradon

    Triceradon In it for the rage

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    I can't help but feel like your theory was canonized somewhere.....
     
  4. Tyrannosaur

    Tyrannosaur 100% Sarcastic Saurian

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    Strangely enough I do too. It sounds very familiar but I can't think of what it is.
     
  5. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    was the t-1000 made of was that nano-bots?
     
  6. cnic

    cnic Decepticon

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    Nah, it was made of a liquid metal substance
     
  7. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    ^oh. t-1000 is still one of my fav robots. regardless of what he/it is made of.
    the top 3 are
    1.Bender
    2. rotf optimus prime
    3. t-1000
     
  8. JasonHills

    JasonHills Seeker

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    It's an interesting theory, I don't think there would be much evidence to oppose you because the science behind their ability to transform has not really been touched on yet.
     
  9. jonatron26

    jonatron26 Well-Known Member

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    ah yes, transformology.
     
  10. Toxicon

    Toxicon Banned

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    I love this theory. Very plausible.
     
  11. Dran0n

    Dran0n Junk male

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    Could be right.
     
  12. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    Eh, I prefer the 'origami-Formers' explanation. That a Transformer is capable of mass-shifting during transformation by simply folding all those parts inwards or outwards on themselves.
     
  13. JasonHills

    JasonHills Seeker

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    mm hmm indeed :) 
     
  14. Mr.Sci-Fi

    Mr.Sci-Fi Bite my shiny Metal (_l_)

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    To a point all TFs would do this because they can reformat at will, which brings up totally different questions.

    If they did just fall off and die then get regenerated later, their mass would still need to come from somewhere. When growing in size they would need to pull materials from their surroundings, I'd hate to be around them when they did. Perfect example would be the modern day gort from the latest "day the earth stood still" movie.

    The insecticons from G1 are another example of eating anything to reproduce and grow.
     
  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Just throwing this out there but do you really an explanation?

    Jetfire can teleport in the movie but we really don't need an explanation about how he can teleport and take others with him we just take it as part of sci fi that aliens can do things that we can't do ourselves.

    Or the Hulk movies and cartoons. We don't really need an explanation of where the Hulk's extra mass and weight come from when Bruce gets pissed we just accept that he get's bigger and heavier as the Hulk the smaller and lighter as Banner.

    Perhaps you could do some sort of mass shifting in the film and then let the fans hash out the why themselves sort of like when Star Wars was cool and everything wasn't explained to us.
     
  16. KAGE

    KAGE aka: GibsonKAGE

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    Well Jetfire uses Space Bridge technology, which seems to be more of a teleportation system in the movie universe. As for the Hulk? That info is out there trust me LOL!, hit up the Marvel Wikia.

    But for Mass Shifting, theres no real need for it when you have TransFormers of all shapes and sizes.

    When you look at a TF as large as movie Soundwave, who launches Ravage who then spits up "nono-bots" which come together to form a robot much smaller than both Ravage and Soundwave. Thats still all part of Soundwave's gestalt.
     
  17. Covenant

    Covenant Mr. Roboto in Disguise

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    Due to fun arguments and heated debates of the official movie website about three years ago, this sucker about Transformers mass-shifting got put up. :D 

    Shifting mass by compression of parts & what not. Yeah, I like to think a lot of Transformers have areas within them whether we see them or not that use this design in transformations from one mode to another. It makes sense, much like the robot mode being usable enough seconds before full transformation is acheived & everything locked into place, which they did a very decent job of illustrating in the films. I'd been hoping for that. But back to the compression and Frenzy of the first film in particular. The guy's a robotic entity, made of Cybertronian metals, he's got to have some weight to him. I don't mean he weighs a ton, but surely he's bound to have, say, the weight of a slender child of nearly the same height? Yet the stewardess of Air Force One didn't seem to have any issue picking him up and carrying him as though he were a real plastic radio. What could be the fan explanation there? Where does the weight go? Is there weight? Is he made of lightweight hollow metal or something? Lol, anti-grav devices/hover units only used in alt mode to give the feeling of lightweightedness? :lol  I know, this type of detail isn't important to the onscreen presentation, it's so minor a detail it can't possibly be an 'issue', but I just love the fansplanations behind fictional tech. :) 

    Visually, just sitting there watching sci-fi fiction onscreen, no, suspension of disbelief kicks in and a movie is enjoyed, its magic or tech just accepted as plausible by the simple fact it's there and exists within the fictional world.

    The rest is fanmade explanations, and I love those.

    I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.

    Godziboy1993, good job of application to the process there. I likes. While I like to think the occasional mass-shifting in the sense of the fan-made dimensional shunting method of days past, nanotech replication, incorporation, manipulation, these things make a heck of sense. Though I still enjoy the other thoughts on how mass-shifting tends to work in the fiction of Transformers too. Always thought, since Cons were shown to mass-shift more, that the tech was never beyond experimental states, just employed during war, only such'n'such individuals willing to be fitted with it. And I still think it would be an interesting story to revisit with the idea of it being a science they didn't comprehend, only saw results and utilized them, but perhaps they were unintentionally creating some kind of damage to wherever the mass went, or some trouble of the same nature.

    Then again, you can always run with that idea in nanotech just as easily. But, of course, that's not for the films to worry about. As much as a 'four letter word' "morph" tends to be in Transformers, that's exactly what is happening when we see things like them taking on new alternative forms. They're entire bodies inward and outward restructure in less than a second to accomodate perfect mimmicry and the structure of the robotic mode which seems to incorporate a general preexisting standard of design with aspects & pieces of their vehicular modes. Nanotechnology is the best explanation for this, and their apparent advanced skill with it to be able to achieve such impressive feats in the blink of an eye gives explanations to why Prime can become instantly in control of a bonded Jetfire corpse, n'such.

    But on Frenzy's head; Okay, sure, call it a nanotech morph (watching the change to the cell phone shows clear visual cheating in the change), but what I don't get is why his head didn't change at all? What I mean is, Protoform Bumblebee looks like a Bayformers protoform or whatever its suppose to be called in the prequal comics to the first movie, that changes when he takes on the old Camaro alt mode, then again with the new Camaro. Why didn't Frenzy's head change after he'd scanned the cell phone for a new alt mode for his head? Then later, when the Allspark 'fixes' him, he suddenly has the same portable radio body of before? I know, I know, just film-makers not worrying about such details and reusing what they can for cg designs. But that's not the angle I'm asking from..
     
  18. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Only nitpicky fans, people that use 'it must have a realistic explanantion' as a way of trying to keep things out of the film and those internet reviewer people that nerd over the whys and wherefores need an explination. I'm sure all those general moviegoers that these movies are actually aimed at couldn't care less about how some of these things are done.

    Y'know, I bet if Bay chucked in a load of TF mass-shifting all over the place in the next film the general public would barely bat an eyelid, and most anyone that was against the idea of it in these films for whatever reason would suddenly be right into how great it actually was (because we all know if G1 or whatever did it then it was stupid, but if Bay goes and does it then it's kewl).
     
  19. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    I figure since he was just a head, the cell-phone transformation was less an actual trans-scan (we aren't explicitly shown him scanning the phone) and more just a holographic display around his scrunched up head.
     
  20. Brenttoo

    Brenttoo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is a nitpicky discussion at all, although I do feel like it heads in a direction I don't personally care for.

    The theory itself sounds very clever and I do think that the movie's writers had something like this in mind when they developed a couple of sequences.

    But I hesitate wanting to hear too much of the phrase 'mass-shift', because I think it begins to affect other areas of believability. Not that this thread implies any such use, I'm just issuing a personal precaution.

    The writers did a lot of work to make the concepts of TF work in the real world by dismissing such things as mass shifting (thus allowing the bots to exist with real physics). This means that, yeah, Starscream might be a little bigger than Optimus, but again, I personally like that added realism.

    And fyi in regards to the original theory, the concept artists did actually intend for the Cybertronian's technology/biology to be based in Nanomolecular structures; microscopic robots allowing them to change form. Just some added gratification...
     

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