Give me proof and I'll believe you. As it is, all your side has is something that says 'cocaine-rage' just makes you abnormally violent, not abnormally strong. He was having his rights violated, and when that happens, the last thing you should do is sit down and shut up. He didn't have to give a urine sample, and someone tried to forcibly take it from him. Then they start torturing him because they didn't realise a guy might get pissed if you try to stick a tube up his dick. So, man gets tortured due to police and hospital staff incompetence. Also, from the article... Notice how it says that the police officer's tasering occurs 'when Wheeler still refused to let the catherer be inserted', not when 'Wheeler's thrashing began to endanger both himself and hospital staff'. Of course, the real question here is why the OP was doing a search for 'man'.
From my opinion, if the dude didn't wanna have the feeling of getting raped, then frickin cooperate or face the consequences. From what I am seeing, he had three options: 1. Cooperate and pee on his own 2. Don't cooperate, get the rape feeling as he gets urine sucked out of him (might include a taste of voltage). 3. Keep resisting giving a urine sample and die from a coke overdose. If he is not going to follow a professional's instruction who is attending to his situation, then he can go die.
For inquiring minds, here are two articles about the start and the results of the trial against the officer. They both offer new details about how Wheeler was tased. And apologizes to Zie. Wheeler was in fact a crackhead lol. http://www.wesh.com/news/8515480/detail.html Jury Returns Mixed Decision In Officer's Taser Trial - Orlando News Story - WESH Orlando I have to change my option on all this. The guy was apparently a crack dealer. I have ZERO sympathy for crack dealers. Edit: Articles about the Officer's second taser trial. http://www.wesh.com/news/9341595/detail.html http://www.wesh.com/news/9349083/detail.html
And he was spazzing out and ostensibly becoming a danger to those around him because someone was trying to forcefully insert something into his urethra, which I don't think (I could be wrong) they have a right to do. Given that he was handcuffed and strapped to the bed, it is probably unlikely that he would be able to free himself to do any damage, but let's assume one of the hypothetical siutations mentioned earlier was actually threatening to occur: He still would not be an immediate threat, so if attempting to force a urine sample out of him that they didn't (presumably) have a right to take was starting to create a situation in which he might possibly become a threat, then they should've stopped trying to force the urine sample out of him. I mean seriously, the crackhead is flipping out because you're trying to stick something up (down?) his dick, not because he likes the feeling of metal and leather chafing his skin and wants to hit somebody for fun. All of this is moot if hospitals actually have the right to forcefully extract urine samples, I suppose. I'm aware that employee/student drug tests are legal in at least some parts of the States, so that could very well be true, especially in cases dealing with drug arrests. In which case, I would concede that the tasering was justified. Though if they actually believed he had swallowed a balloon of coke as the one article states, I'd think the last thing they'd want to do is taser him if the whole thing was really about 'treating him'. OD + taser = much worse situation.
i just noticed this incident took place over 4 years ago. is there any purpose in bringing this up aside from cop-bashing?
Because guys (crackheads or not) don't like the idea of having to choose between getting tasered, or having tubes shoved up their dick? Just saying. -XCN-
"Let me help you... by shoving this tube in your penis and firing 50,000 volts through you." There's no indication the guy was in danger of breaking free, or hurting anyone. Or that he was doing anything other than to stop an invasive, unnecessary medical procedure that any half-decent court would classify as an illegal search. There's a huge difference between upholding the law and brutally enforcing your will on to someone else because you don't want to lose face. The issue shouldn't be the officer's ego, it should be what produces the best result for the public. This plainly produced an awful result. I'd also add - once again - this is NOT what tasers were originally introduced to do. They were supposed to be a non-lethal alternative to firearms, to be used in circumstances where a cop would normally use a gun. Since then, that purpose has been perverted.
Again with the torture? You still never answered what you would do in a situation where you were a doctor and someone told you they swallowed a balloon full of coke. Trying to perform a medical procedure that can potentially save someone's life is not torture. Zapping some increasingly aggressive and wildly spazzing out crackhead because he refuses to cooperate with the police and medical professionals is *not* torture. Because that could have taken hours upon hours, in which that man would have had to have been kept strapped to a bed while a balloon of coke burst inside his gut. Which is far more "abusive" and dangerous then zapping him. This isn't a power trip, this isn't a cop being a dick, this is someone who's refusing all authority and fighting against something that could save his life. ...I'm really bored at work Actually, this is what Tasers were originally intended to do. They're a non-lethal, low trauma, non-painful way to instantly take the fight out of someone. Though there have been cases of Taser abuse, this certainly isn't one of them. His only other options in this situation were to either beat him with his baton, or leave him strapped to the bed while a balloon of coke bursts inside of him and kills him slowly, painfully and violently over time. The doctors needed to know what chemicals were in his system before doing anything to him, and for that they needed this sample. And because of how violently the guy struggled, the cop was forced to do something and he chose the least violent and most effective method to stop the guy from fighting. To the point where after getting zapped, the cokehead willingly gave the sample. This is nothing about ego, and it never has been, the cop made the best decision he could in that circumstance.
The problem with the 'balloon of coke' thing is that taking a urine sample wouldn't help them to determine if he had in fact swallowed it, because the quantity that would hypothetically (I didn't see anything in any of the articles on whether they eventually confirmed that he had) be in the balloon wouldn't be detectable in his system unless the balloon had burst, in which case he would probably already be ODing. If their real motive had had anything to do with a ballon of coke, then an X-ray would've been not only sufficient, but also more effective at actually detecting it.
How does taking a urine sample help if a a guy says he's swallowed a balloon full of coke? Really, you're not making any sense. X-rays, yeah I could maybe understand that. Confirm the thing is there and work out a plan of action based on that. But a urine sample? Are you hoping he'll piss the whole balloon out? So yeah:torture. That's what it is. A taser is supposed to be used as a less lethal alternative to a firearm. Unless you're saying the only other option was to shoot the guy, the word we're looking at is torture.
Who the hell told you it's non-painful? They are supposed to be a non-lethal alternative to firearms. Not a fun-size cattleprod.
1. He swallowed crack rocks not a balloon of coke. 2. The first time he was tased he was not strapped down or handcuffed to the bed. He reacted violently when he wouldn't take a piss, and was tased. This was acceptable IMO. The second tasing came after he was strapped down. I could do without this one.
And how would X-raying show what other chemicals were in his system at the time? p.s. you have to sit still for those to work. Actually the other alternatives were to leave him to die painfully or beat him till he complied. Work out a plan of action? Seriously? This is not a case of torture, not in any way shape or form. The entire point of tasers is to send an electrical shock to your body that causes a mass contraction of your muscles, which instantly and effectively causes you to convulse and lose bodily control. They're not just an alternative to firearms, but an alternative to batons, pepper spray and good old fashioned beatings. Because for the VAST majority of the situations they're used in, they're far more effective and have far less lingering effects, including pain, then any other method of restraint. Yes, if they're misused they can be painful and deadly, but this is not a situation of miss-use. And it's cattleprods are used to cause pain, because if you tased a cow, it would fall to the ground while cattleprods keep the cattle moving. The reports clearly show that the entire time this suspect was being arrested (not just after he was strapped down) he was fighting and struggling. Before he even *got* to the hospital he was aggressive and combative. This isn't a case of some joe-schmo crackhead scared of having a catheter inserted into him, he was fighting the entire time. Even if you're cuffed you can easily hurt people, especially after swallowing a load of drugs.
It's a simple enough question, I don't know why you won't answer it: what is the point of the urine test in this situation?
Because the doctors needed to know what drugs *besides* the load of crack cocaine he swallowed were already in his system. That includes Alcohol. Now your turn. If you were a doctor, and you had some violent crackhead who you needed to save brought into you with very little time before he gets worse and possibly dies, how would you go about getting the necessary tests done to find out what chemicals you could and could not use on him?
Thanks for answering. Now tell me where you're getting that information from. I can't find it in anything I've read, but of course, I may have missed something.
Okay, so aside from Prowl, how many here are cops? Allright, how many are doctors? Fine, how many here really know just what the fuck they're talking about? Here's how it is. This is personal experience speaking as well as speaking with my father. He spent 10 + years as a nurse at the Topeka State Hospital, psychiatric wing. his job included restraining psychotic patients, dealing with people freaking out, et al. When someone is property strapped into the bed, when they are restrained, THEY ARE NOT ESCAPING by thrashing around or using 'superhuman strength'. Seriously, it's not superhuman strength, you just don't feel pain. You're not the incredible fucking hulk, you're just another dopehead who doesn't feel himself break every bone in his hand when he punches a window. This was an illegal use of a taser. It is not meant to force someone to comply like this. It is a tool to be used to nonlethally bring down a suspect who poses harm to self and others. When you are strapped to the bed, yeah, you're not a threat. You're just another asshole who needs to sit still. Seriously, people, come on. I don't know where you live or why you think it's allright just because one guy is a cop and the other is a crackhead to think this is acceptable behavior, but it's not. As an officer of the law, you are to be held to the higher standard. People are supposed to look up to you, respect you. How can you respect a man who tased the guy strapped down? That makes you a bully and an asshole. Not a cop, not a hero. Oh, and catheters hurt like a BITCH! I totally understand why the guy didn't want one. Shit, I'd put up a fight myself.
yeah, they hurt... A LOT. but only for a short while of a sharp intense pain. after a few minutes. you can't really feel it anymore. it hurts more going in then going out. it has that 'i have to pee now' feeling when they pull it out though. kinda hard to flirt with the nurse when she's emptying your pee bag.
