I am not sure why Transformers have ever needed to be male and female or, more recently, have their interpersonal relationships defined in human terms.

First, let me start out by saying Transformers often use male pronouns because we, and the writers, speak English and English speakers often default to using male pronouns. Vernacular English has changed over time to include female pronouns or plural pronouns instead of just male pronouns, but often people in conversation and in writing will default back to male pronouns out of habit. So, most Transformers, rightly or wrongly, are called by male pronouns when they probably shouldn’t be… because they are robots from another planet. Rather, I would think the Transformers would have their own way of using pronouns (like Marvel had with time – a vorn is 83 of Earth years). Personally, I would much rather see Transformers define themselves rather than the writers insisting on defining them in human terms. I think, personally, it would be awesome if Transformers spoke without pronouns, similar to how Yoda had his own speech patterns. They are alien, so why should they speak English?
Second, biologically, there are two known forms of reproduction – sexual and asexual.

Sexual reproduction requires the presence of both a male and a female. The primary reason there are males and females is to perpetuate life. Without males and females, biological life ends. For living organisms which need sexual reproduction to perpetuate, both male and female are necessities, as Japanese geneticists demonstrated in 2010 when they created only two viable zygotes out of 371 attempts at forcing two female mouse eggs to combine into a zygote via genetic manipulation.

Asexually, organisms can reproduce alone. Examples are when a potato buds and makes new potatoes; or fission when an organism divides itself into two and each offspring gets half of the parent (like in protozoans like amoebas); or fragmentation like when two starfish grow when one is cut in half; or, most complexly, when parthenogenesis occurs in some plants and animals (almost always invertebrates). It should be noted for parthenogenesis, the resultant offspring is a naturally occurring clone of the mother and not a genetically new individual.

With the exception of a few Transformers in the first cartoon, like the Dinobots being built from scratch, Transformers have reproduced when an external object – like the Matrix of Leadership, Vector Sigma, or the Allspark - infuses sentient life into a lifeless body, like golems in Jewish mythology. Marvel expounded on that and gave us budding, which was similar in some ways to biological fission. IDW gave us the (awesome) idea of sparks being picked up off the ground and built into new life (or harvested from the Matrix).

All of that is to simply say, there is no biological need for Transformers to have males and females as humans see them. Transformers don’t reproduce the way organic life does. Furthermore, because Transformers lack gender, the mechanics of their interpersonal relationships must be fundamentally different than ours as humans. For example, not only is there no basis to say Transformers have romantic relationships at all because not only do they lack the equipment necessary (there is no basis for shipping!), but there has never been any indication, beyond hints of Alpha Trion being a father figure to Orion Pax in the original cartoon or some in the Bay movies, that there are familial relationships between Transformers as we see them. So, a Transformer can have a spouse, but there is no indication they would ever have what we would call a romantic relationship. They can be what we call platonic and deeply loving, but not romantic as we define it.

Transformers do not, nor should they, relate the way we as humans do and to continually push the belief an advanced and ancient alien race would adopt humanity’s definitions on anything is hubristic to the extreme nor is it very creative. Even if the Transformers have a genetic code, there is still no reason to have male and female Transformers except to pander to the audience’s taste and IDW has said, several times, Transformers don’t have gender. Likewise, because they have no gender, to me there is no way to define a Transformer relationship as what humans would define as hetero- or homosexual, except to appeal to our taste as the audience.

To me, forcing human gender and relationship definitions upon a fictional species which has been shown for decades to not need them is a complete selling out of artistic integrity. I think a more accurate way to depict Transformers would not be to use gender – for example, saying something like “Transformers HAVE to be male and female” – because there is no purpose for it at all. It serves no point. Rather, I propose a better path would be to say something like “a Transformer, while all asexual, can more closely identify with what we as humans see as one gender or the other without actually having gender.” For example, I would like to think of the holomatter avatars as how the Transformers see themselves in human terms and thereby allow them, as the more technologically advanced species, to interact with us, the inferior, in terms we can understand. To me, the best way to think of the holomatter avatars is as a translation into something humanity can understand, but with the understanding the translation has to go both ways.

So, you could use argue Bumblebee, Bluestreak, Sunstreaker, Whirl, Tailgate, and Cyclonus see themselves as what humans could call female without needing to say one way or the other the character is definitely female. You could even argue Minimus Ambus identifies as female because of Ambus’ use of Verity Carlo as an avatar (and possible the Nebulan, which again is not definitely a male – just as you can’t tell the difference between a male and female Vulcan or female or male Wookie, you can’t say for certain Ambus’ Nebulan avatar is male or female because they aren’t human).

Likewise, I have no problem with deep relationships within Transformers, except when it comes at the price of artistic integrity. My main problem here is explicitly saying “Needlenose and Horri-Bull and Chromedome and Rewind are gay couples,” or “Acceleron and Proxima are lesbians,” or “Orion Pax and Elita-One or Airazor and Tigatron are romantically involved” because as Transformers, they don’t have genders (as I have already shown) and humans define romantic relationships according to sexual attraction, but Transformers do not, mostly because, to this point, there has been no meaningful reason for sexual attraction to exist among Transformers except for (you guessed it) appealing to the audience. Even heterosexual relationships, like Orion Pax and Elita-One from the first cartoon, really have no purpose except to pander to the audience and gain more female viewers, which is also a major sellout of artistic integrity. Sure, they can be spouses, but don’t imply it is for sexual attraction as we humans define it when it is actually because they deeply love the other partner without a sexual aspect to their relationship.

In conclusion, Transformers really don’t need gender or human defined romantic relationships. We as human readers think we need them (which actually translates to “we want them,” but there is always a difference between want and need). Personally, I don’t feel there is any place for gender and relationships as they are defined now, but there can be if they are defined according to what the Transformers see. If you want any relationship among two Transformers, I challenge anyone – professional writer or fan fiction firsty – find what the characters – who aren’t human – would see and write from that perspective. That’s when we will get new and exciting material; that’s when we get plotlines that stir our souls. Otherwise, we are really just reading a sitcom about human characters who have donned Transformer make-up and to me that is a waste of what is an amazing franchise.

 

You've raised some valid points.

 

Blame the cartoons for casting every 'bot as a male. Look at Override, his gender was changed to female when Cybertron was dubbed into English and it worked. Then there's Strongarm, if it weren't for that "lipstick" I doubt her gender would be obvious.

 

You make a lot of good points, but in the end people are always gonna want to see themselves in fiction. I doubt very many folks would like the series if it turned out your way. Not to say I don't think it's a valid viewpoint, but it lacks the mainstream appeal the brand strives for.

 

I do, and also for introducing the original females just to be male counterparts and Arcee as the strange love triangle between Springer and Rodimus. But a lot of the first Transformers material was base on how a given writer was feeling on any given day of the week.

 

There is a lot wrong with your suppositions here, but I feel this in particular is a root cause of your problems:

"because as Transformers, they don’t have genders (as I have already shown) and humans define relationships according to sexual attraction, but Transformers do not"

You seem insistent on assigning a sexual component to gendered relationships, when we know, in our own species, that simply isn't necessary.

But that's neither here nor there, ultimately. Not only has this topic been beaten to death, despite any of our opinions, the creators and writers and owners have said and proven time and time again that Cybertronians are gendered. Reproduction and sexual activity simply aren't requirements for their interpersonal relationships.

People spend an awful lot of time dwelling on robot sex around here.

 

I agree and there is nothing wrong with that, but I think that will kill the franchise eventually because writers will always be writing to please a fan base than to tell good stories.

 

That's true too-- I think it's been made patently obvious at this point that, even within Transformers itself (to say nothing of IRL), reproduction is HARDLY a necessary component for romantic relationships. If anything, it gets in the way; these asexually reproducing Cybertronians are able to sustain relationships that last thousands and thousands of years.

 

No, you're right. I caught that when I posted it; it should say romantic relationships. But the main question remains unanswered, if they are alien robotic life, why should they be defined in terms of human genders and sexuality?

 

Considering the Transformers have been gendered since the beginning, and the brand is just as strong, if not stronger, probably says a lot about the likelihood of gender one day killing the franchise.

One of several threads to tackle this subject, btw:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/trans...6763-being-gay-norm-transformers-society.html

 

Yes, and that's part of the point. Gender and reproduction are inextricably intertwined IRL. Transformers have no need of reproduction as we define it so there should be no need of gender as we see it. Humans have relationships that can at most last a few decades; these aliens are so far beyond us that to define their relationships in our human terms is hubristic.

 

Gender is more than what dangly bits you have anyways. Their are many social, and cultural issues that shape that, and what it means.

Secondly, the writers are human. More often than not with Transformers, an attempt at an genderless portayal ends up with them masculine. Very few writers can really do a truly alien mindset. After all it's not like we have any real frame of reference for anything but human for a sentient species.

 

Hahaha I remember that thread. No, I would argue that's not the norm or even a definition in Transformer society because Mairghread Scott said Transformers being asexual is the academically correct.

And Transformers haven't been gendered from the start. When Transformers were first introduced in 1984, there were no female Transformers, no gender - they were all implied to be male (rightly or wrongly). Female Transformers didn't come in until the second season of the original cartoon and later in the comics.

 

Male is a gender. They have been gendered from the start.

 

Yes, and I'm saying that gender shouldn't be portrayed in human terms for an alien culture of asexual robots?

 

Who are we to say humanity hasn't simply appropriated another race's ideas of gender and tried to apply them to our sexual behaviors? Perhaps that would explain why there are so many people who don't fit into this binary way of thinking: we've misappropriated the idea of gender.

You're still trying to tie reproduction into your point, which is still falling short of what you're trying to get across.

 

But no where does it state they are male until the second season. People assumed they were all male based on their own presuppositions and lack of evidence to the contrary. Gender exists on a binary; you can't define male without female or female without male. You can have asexual with just one but not both; you must have both male and female to define the other.

 

Gender is based in sex. Not to say that gender can't exist outside the realm of sex, it can, but to say that they're two entirely different concepts is incorrect. They're interconnected.

We have the gender norms we do because of the junk we have downstairs. Some people choose to not operate within those parameters, which is their right, but gender in any form and any classification grows from the basic binary sex/genitals that we have.

The whole idea that Transformers are default male comes from their voice actors having male voices in the cartoons. A funny thing is I wouldn't have a problem with a woman voicing Megatron. Or a woman voicing Prime.

 

If the characters came off as 100% completely gender neutral, they would be a lot less fun (IMO).

Take a look at characters like Animated Lockdown or Animated Soundwave or any version of Bumblebee-- their personality is tied to their physical characteristics which is tied to some sort of gender identity. You remove the bits that humanize these characters and you end up with monotone boxes that change shape.

I can't imagine how you would humanize these characters without giving them human characteristics (which inevitably involve gender traits, which also tie to cultural norms surrounding gender and sex).

Before the ladybots arrived in G1 we knew that Optimus was a dude. We anthropomorphize everything. Its human nature and part of what makes any storytelling appealing.

I understand this desire to scrub gender from the franchise. Its the reason why relate to the characters.

 

That reminds me of this Shortpacked! gem.

Did they need to be gendered originally? Of course not, but the creators of the comic, cartoon, and tech specs were trying to sell toys to the boys market. It wasn't about artistic integrity, it was about business. Thankfully some series are better at having well written stories and characters, but at the end of the day Hasbro's marketing division is calling the shots and looking at dollar signs.

You bring up Yoda's distinctive speech pattern in Star Wars, but he was only one character in the series who didn't even show up until the second movie (admittedly we also had Chewbacca, R2-D2, and other aliens in the first one who didn't speak English.) However the majority of the characters spoke in a pretty standard way. I think it is safe to say that many people would be turned off by a show or comic book in which everyone talks in a really unusual way. Transformers is no different. We get some characters with unusual speech patterns (the Dinobots, Wheelie, Soundwave) but most of them are going to sound pretty normal. A cartoon for kids in which everyone is using odd pronouns and speech patterns would likely get a lot of flack from the audience.

^This.