Major News/SPOILER ALERT Robert Orci confirms...

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by JediAJ2008, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. AllSpark Ferret

    AllSpark Ferret hANDYman

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    Thanks, Bob. I'm really looking forward to the movie and even if only half of the rumours turn out to be true it sound like it's going to be fantastic.

    Ferret
     
  2. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    Okay, now, the jokes are fine if it's suited for the character or movie. Iron Man was PG-13, just like Transformers. You can't tell me that a mom wouldn't say something to her son like Sam's mom did about masturbating. That comment suited her character. Regardless, everyone is crying about those type of jokes in general.

    Even though I may agree, there was still millions of other people and critics that thought it worked out pretty good.

    You lose your Joe Six Pack status when you become knowledgeable concerning a subject, in this case, Transformers. :D 
     
  3. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it really did suit the movie.

    Having the same rating is irrelevant. You don't put knob gags into a film because it's aimed at a PG-13, but if it's relevant to your story.

    Tony Stark is a hard drinking, philandering tycoon who can't keep his trousers on; thus you don't have to put that type of joke in, but it will immediately be germaine to how he behaves.

    The description 'A mom' is not a character, or even an archetype. A mother can be anything you want, including a villian.

    You might suggest that the character of Sam's mom was the type of person who's mind would jump straight to masturbation, but I think that's a stretch given how little we see of her up until then. The whole scene is set up just so she can make that mistake, rather than being a product of her character.

    The tail wags the dog, so to speak.

    I know what you're saying, but I find peoples habit of resorting to the box office numbers rather meaningless. That tells you the film was popular, not WHY it was successful. For example, it doesn't tell you what people didn't like, but were prepared to ignore, because of the the good parts of a film.

    (Personally I subscribe to the view that people wanted to see the fantastic robots from the trailer - everything else was a distant second.)

    In the same way that audiences didn't leave The Dark Knight feeling cheated by the rather darker humour on show, I can't really believe that sharpening up some of the wit in Transformers would have fudamentally damaged the film or affected its success (not that I wish to see the kind of leaden tone of TDK in Transformers).

    Sort of. But everyone is knowledgeable about something, in fact usually numerous things. In fact my Transformers knowledge (or lack of it) would appall most visitors to this site, as it's confined to the 1980's comic, 1980's toys and...nothing else. Not even the cartoon!

    Anyway my point being that when studios aim for a generic audience it doesn't have to mean a stupid one. The average person ain't as thick as some people find it convenient to paint 'em.
     
  4. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    No one is saying Joe Six Pack is stupid. I simply said Joe Six Pack would find that funny because regular guys, not TF fans, would find that funny. Like someone posted earlier, America loves the potty humor. Joe Six Pack makes up a large part of this country. Everyone did want to see big robots, and they did, but to a regular crowd, showing only robots being serious for 3 hours is BORING.

    Her character was pretty much set up at that point, with the bling comment and the fact that she had been drinking and making silly comments. To me, it was something she would have said giving the circumstances. And no, I don't believe for one second that the entire scene was set up for that joke.

    Rating is not irrelevant. People are complaining about kids seeing these type of jokes when in a PG-13 movie there is already fair warning that the material might not be suitable for a child.

    "Knob gags" are usually part of comic relief. Comic relief doesn't have to be related to the story.
     
  5. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but the inference of both yourself and others has most definately been that the average movie go-er isn't bright enough to appreciate a film without dumb jokes, and as such they are a requirement.

    You go on to reinforce this idea with the ridiculous assessment that TF fans are somehow not 'regular guys'. Presumably we must have a radically different sense of humour to the rest of America (or indeed, the world).

    Either that or you're back to making sweeping generalisations about a large part of the planets population's ability to enjoy a film without toilet humour.

    This is the same kind of talking down to an audience that the very worst Hollywood type are guilty of. It makes for horrible films, and is consistently proven wrong.

    Firstly, the argument has never been that everything in these films should be entirely serious. There is obviously enormous potential for good FUN. But the standard of laughs has been, well, shit. Up the game.

    Secondly, we are back to this silly, and wholey unsupportable argument that a 'regular crowd' (whatever this might actually be) are incapable of enjoying good storytelling without some condescending slapstick 'comedy' at regular 5 minute intervals.

    I really don't think this is actually the case.

    I'm going to have to bring it up again, but The Dark Knight has grossed something like half a billion dollars so far.

    Who went to see this film? It can't have been the 'regular guys' because they would've found 3 hours of a man in a rubber costume fighting a clown BORING. And where were all the fart gags?

    And who the hell watches those Star Wars films? They're all so geeky and full of fanwank detail. Joe Sixpack wouldn't understand them...

    I'd love to support this notion that the proles are all dummies (someone is buying tickets for Epic Movie after all), and sometimes filmakers are going to have to make concessions to broaden audience appeal, but I think the truth really is more mundane - if a film has an exciting premise that attracts people, is brilliantly made and as long as the studios promote it properly, it stands as good a chance as any of doing well.

    I think there are a number of different responses in the circumstances. The masturbation isn't some kind of given.

    Far enough, though I was merely pointing out that rating shouldn't be used a litmus of taste. Many films are PG-13, but that shouldn't be a guarantee that the comedy will be all frat house.

    But it works so much better when it is.


    Actually I don't like the term 'comic relief'. It suggests that the funny stuff needs to be there to break up the tension, as though any other emotion generated by watching a movie is worthless.

    I should probably point out that while I found some of the comedy rather poor, there was enough gentle humour in the early part of the film to make me think that maybe Mr Bay should take a rest from blowing shit up and direct a comedy. Might get it out of his system anyway...
     
  6. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that in this movie, an action flick, people don't mind these jokes and, more often than not, find them funny. They go to get entertained, not see an Oscar-performance. And that is okay. Now, if Benjamin Button farted on Daisy, then I can understand an uproar.
     
  7. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Well-Known Member

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    Yes I understand that. I'm saying that by the standards of action flick comedy, there's better out there. In fact there are much better scripts altogether. In all honesty I have much greater problems with the script as a whole, the comedy isn't really my main bugbear.

    People are inherently lazy. Feed them fast food and they'll eat it. Feed them gourmet quality fast food and they'll eat that too! It serves no purpose to aim for the bottom rung to begin with.

    Ghostbusters always springs to my mind as a action/comedy/fantasy film that is extremely sharply written, depsite being based on what is essentially a very silly premise. It's also really good fun.

    I mention it because I think the whole 1980's vibe of films like GB, Back to the Future etc have a kind of kinship with Transformers. I think Transformers has the potential to be as great as these seminal flicks, and as a result I won't defend it's shortcomings.

    PS I think there should be a moratorium on using the phrases 'Oscar-performance' and 'It's not Shakespeare'.

    Both suggest that there is no middle ground between moronically stupid and brain-numbingly intellectual, and it's pretty obvious this laughable.

    (Ironically Shakespeare would have been the Michael Bay of his time - a populist playwrite, not an elitist).
     
  8. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    LOL

    As soon as I read your Shakespeare comment, I thought that exactly. Too funny.

    Yeah, there is a middle ground. It's called mediocre. I'd rather fuss till I'm blue in the face because a movie totally sucked, than to walk out of a theater feeling just like I walked in; meh.
     
  9. airfox

    airfox TF: Cybertronian Wars!

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    Because the movie is not entirely targeted to die-hard fans, of course.

    QFT.

    I remember complaining about the Bumblebee "pissing" scene to some of my college friends and coworkers, and it seems most of them didn't mind or actually liked that. Figures!

    Come on! Teenage boy, locked in his room. Teenage highschooler, locked in his room. Of course he was having his happy time! Or wasn't he? ;) 

    -airfox
     

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