Low Courage = Evil?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Quixote_Prime, May 28, 2011.

  1. Quixote_Prime

    Quixote_Prime is missed.

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    Does having a low courage imply evil or neutral tendencies in a Cybertronian?

    I know much of the tech specs of g1 characters were not well-thought out but sometimes it seems to have matched. For instance, G1 Megatron is high everywhere except in courage. Possible turncoat Mirage is "5." Nevertheless, Trypticon is a "10" so it's not a universal rule

    EDIT: I'm interested mainly in how the authors of the early g1 used courage and how it has extended to the present day tf-verses.

    I first thought of this when ....

    (movie spoilers)

    I was reading the tech specs of Sentinel Prime and noticed his low courage. I thought-- "uh-oh" when it contrasted with his bio about being a legendary Autobot. Then I read some of the spoilers.
     
  2. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Being a coward implies [not confirms, however] evil tendencies in REAL-LIFE as well, man.

    Someone too much worried with his own arse might cause the downfall of others to protect himself.
     
  3. Quixote_Prime

    Quixote_Prime is missed.

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    1984 Tech Specs

    10 -- OP, BB, Brawn, CJ, Sideswipe, Trailbreaker, Ironhide
    9 -- Jazz, Prowl, WC, Huffer, Gears
    8 -- Ratchet
    7 -- Sunstreaker
    5 -- Mirage
    2 -- Bluestreak

    Decepticons
    10 -- Frenzy
    9 -- Megs, Skywarp
    8 -- SS
    7 -- Buzzsaw, Rumble
    5 -- TC, Soundwave
    4 -- Ravage
    2 -- Laserbeak
     
  4. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Wait, STARSCREAM has 8 of courage? The hell?
     
  5. Quixote_Prime

    Quixote_Prime is missed.

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    I'm reading right off of my G1 tech spec album.

    I'm not sure, but I think the Seekers had parts of their tech specs swapped. I dont know the "proper" ones. I think TC should have the 8 courage, since he's the most honorable seeker.
     
  6. Sideways77

    Sideways77 some garbage is okay

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    Yeah! It should be -2!
     
  7. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Courage doesn't make you good. It means you're more willing to put yourself into dangerous situations or at risk of injury for the things you want. Sentinel Prime doesn't have low courage because he's not a paladin, he has low courage because he's a self-important douchewagon. Alternately, someone like movie Bonecrusher or Animated Lugnut could have high courage, because they're homicidal berzerkers willing to wade into a melee and wreck stuff up, not because they're heroic.

    Perceptor has low courage, does that make him evil?
     
  8. Autobus Prime

    Autobus Prime Transit Former

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    QP:

    Well, it's been claimed before that criminals are "a cowardly and superstitious lot"...:) 
     
  9. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    I say courage is more of a neutral trait, can be good, can be bad.

    However, it is techinically a better trait than cowardice, because "courage" means you have the balls to stand up against something you disagree even when all the chances are against you, that's techinically a good trait by its definition, but it might turn bad depending on which side you're on.

    Cowardice, on the other hand, defines "running away from your challenges", that it's bad trait by its own definition.
     
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No, it jus means they're not as courageous as others.
     
  11. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I would love to see you explain that one logically.

    Which would be an indication of selfishness not evil.
     
  12. Movie PRIME

    Movie PRIME Autobot Leader

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    In most fields of thought selfishness i.e. only caring about ones self, but giving little to no thought about the well being of others is an evil trait.
     
  13. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Hardly, just like courage, selfishness is a neutral trait.

    Its the actions persons willing to take that determines what is evil.
     
  14. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    ...Selfishness Triggered by cowardice.

    Cowardice is by its definition, bad, courage is not.

    A good person might be coward, but that IS flaw, not a quality.

    If a Good person is courageous, that is a quality, now a flaw.
     
  15. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    still not evil

    A] bad does not always equal evil

    B] Cowardice is by its definition is :lack of courage in facing danger, pain, or difficulty

    But it is not necessarily bad.

    Althou its looked down on,Cowardice can and has saved many lifes.
    none of which equals evil.
     
  16. Movie PRIME

    Movie PRIME Autobot Leader

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    That again is all up to your school of thought.

    Do you consider a person Good, or Evil by the actions they have taken i.e. what they show the world?

    Or do you look deeper at what a person is capable of? What they would do if they thought they could get away with it?

    Few would truly argue that someone who kills newborn babies isnt evil, but someone who is truly selfish (Again someone who cares only about themselves) would do it if they thought there was a way for them to profit from it and they could get away with it. That makes them Evil!

    So do they have to take the action first, or are they Evil just because they would do it given a way to get away with it?
     
  17. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    "If a man is considered guilty for what goes on in his mind,Then give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"


    Evil come in what a person does or would with his thoughts.....not the thoughts themselfs.

    I am in need of a kidney transplant.I spend part of my days particularly hoping that the next jackass who crashes his car because of drunk driving is a match for me.

    Does that make me selfish???

    Yes....I want to live

    Does it make me evil, not by my standards.
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Let me guess, you're 14?

    Having high courage makes you no better or worse a person than having high firepower or high strength or high endurance.

    "Courage is a quality that makes you a good person but if you don't have it you're flawed and not a good person." That's like a gordian knot of circular reasoning.
     
  19. Movie PRIME

    Movie PRIME Autobot Leader

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    If you never feel bad about HOPEING someone DIES just so you can live then I'm sorry to say it but yes I PERSONALY would say that is an evil action. Note I said if you never feel bad about it. I feel that someone who is truly selfish never feels remorse for what the have done unless it catches up to them, and harms them some how.

    However I would like to point out that this is MY BELIEF, others may not feel the same. Which is the whole point Ive been trying to make that there is no one Good, and Evil. Its pointless to try and argue such things in the first place!
     
  20. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Okay, you're forgetting the situation I put on the first place: Someone too much worried with his own arse might cause the downfall of others.

    That's evil.

    More precisely, it's selfish, selfishness triggered by cowardice.

    I never said it did, I said it IMPLIED evilness, not confirmed, putting all my argument on a very explained form, so you can understand:

    - Cowardice is a negative trait [by its definition] in someone's personality [that does not mean the person is Hitler 2.5, but it is a personality flaw]

    Cowardice is by its definition running away from your battles [not only in the physical term, but on phsycological terms as well].

    I never said it was, read above.

    Examples?

    Read above.

    No need to call me immature here, we're just discussing.
    And I can't see your point.

    You're not getting my point, here let me explain:

    Courage, when in a good person: Good thing, does not mean the person is Jesus Christ reborn, but it is a good thing.

    Cowardice in a good person: Bad thing, does not mean the person is Hitler 2.0 but it's a flaw.
     

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