Lost/destroyed G1 molds?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Cutthroat, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. Cutthroat

    Cutthroat More cowbell, dammit!

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    Sorry if this has already been asked, but besides the lost molds for Wheeljack and Mirage, has there been any official word on any others?

    Over the past few years there have been so many people clamouring for reissues of Sunstreaker and Grimlock (not to mention the other Dinobots) that it would seem to me to be pretty likely that they would have been reissued if the molds were available. Or am I way out in left field here?
     
  2. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan www.megamoonman.com TFW2005 Supporter

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    I've heard the Liokaiser mold is partially gone.
     
  3. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's pretty established that Hasbro UK broke at least two which is why there were only four released over here as the Rescue Force.

    People said the same about Hound until he got reissued though. Not really a good way to tell.

    Phazer
     
  4. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    Why don't they just recreate the molds using the figures?
     
  5. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

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    Because it's expensive.

    Phazer
     
  6. Motor_Master

    Motor_Master Lets the balls touch TFW2005 Supporter

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    I believe Takara did that with Soundwave.

    But Phazer is right, it is an expensive process, and not to just to get an original toy.

    Sadly while most of the original combiner molds exist (devastator, aerialbots, etc) I doubt we'll ever see an offical reissue.

    If I remember correctly, Hasbro said that it was like finding a needle in a hay stack trying to track down the original molds, as they were spread out over Asia at various factories, if they even still existed.
     
  7. godsenddeath

    godsenddeath . TFW2005 Supporter

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    Rumor is that the molds for the combining parts of Road Caesar went awol in or around the same time as the missing Liokaiser molds.


    As for the Dinobots, the fact that G2 artwork surfaced for Swoop but that it never made the cut would *hint* that the mold was lost... to add to that rampant speculation, there are also rumors that the 'reissue' Swoop is being made from the original mold.
     
  8. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    Poor explanation : it's just as expensive to create brand-new molds.
     
  9. defstar

    defstar Autobot...

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    EXACTLY...!!!

    I have often wondered this...what is so hard about taking apart an original and making molds from the parts...it can't be that expensive...
     
  10. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    I mean, why waste money on a new crappy mold like Vector Prime when you spend the same money to recreate the mold for Liokaiser to please the fans?
     
  11. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's not. From various accounts we've had previously, it's disproportionately more expensive. Enough that recreating the molds for such a niche market would result in questionable profits.
     
  12. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

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    Perhaps because new stuff will sell better to a larger audience, while reissues cater to only a very small segment of that same audience? Y'know, because Hasbro and Takara both want to actually make money from the mold?
     
  13. defstar

    defstar Autobot...

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    Definitely on the same page here...

    Hasbro could be saving the remolding as an ace in the hole/last resort type thing...who knows...

    Like a reissue phase 2 or something...
     
  14. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    Bootleggers do it constantly (not all bootlegs are made from stolen molds) and they sell the toys for practically nothing. Revert to good quality plastic and you're good to go.
     
  15. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    The KO molds are also of shit quality. Parts don't fit right, details fudged over or less sharp, parts inexplicably bigger/smaller in relation to others.

    Good quality reverse-engineered molds are expensive.

    Steel molds don't take detail all that well. They're durable, but they gloss over fine details. Ever notice how sharp the detail looks on those resin protos compared to the real deal? They've gotta carve those details extra deep and extra sharp so that the steel can even cast that detail half as well, which still nets a fairly good quality toy in the end. Now imagine trying to recast the toy again, using the production piece for the casting. Imagine how much more detail would be lost.

    And then there comes the expensive part. To restore the newly cast mold to proper standard, they then have to modify the steel mold, likely by hand (or even if not, you still have some poor sap who has to study the mold in intricate detail to determine the flaws in the first place, to be able to program a computer to fix them) in order to restore it to original clarity, and within acceptable tolerances.

    And then you take into consideration the fact that what you're proposing is for them to take these highly expensive reproduction molds and use them to create a low run of affordable toys, solely for a niche market with little potential for returns. Yeah. That'll fly well with the bigwigs.
     
  16. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Because the number of moms & kids who will buy Vector Prime is a thousand times the number of collectors who will buy Liokaiser.

    But in regard to reverse-engineering, we saw both the Convoy and Soundwave molds "repaired" for reissue, so it's clearly possible to an extent. But are there really any big players that haven't been reissued that would allow them to recoup the high cost of said reverse-engineering? (Other than the dinos, which were apparently not very popular in Japan, and the combiners, which have been bootlegged to such a degree, they probably wouldn't even bother).
     
  17. Omnius

    Omnius Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Hound's mold repaired? Would be nice if we could somehow get Mirage, Sunstreaker and Wheeljack again. WJ and SS were re-issued in the UK as late as 1991 so their loss must be relatively recent.
     
  18. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    A loss is a loss, no matter how recent. The RiD Autobot Bros. molds have already been absolutely destroyed due to over-use, and they're fairly modern molds.
     
  19. DoctorKent

    DoctorKent Well-Known Member

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    If TRU couldn't sell through a run of Prowl/Jazz/Silverstreak - pretty much all of the reissues except Prime and Starscream (and I'm not totally sure about Starscream) - then how would Liokaiser be a sure bet? Even Ricochet, who was "highly desired" on fan want lists back in the day, didn't sell through.

    If none of the reissues had made it to clearance, then it would have shown Hasbro there was a big demand for these things, but the last thing they would want to do is spend money making a reissue Wheeljack that only sells through at clearance instead of a 'crappy' Vector Prime which moves 10K+ units in a heartbeat.

    I don't disagree with you - I'd love to see the entire 84-86 lineups reissued in some fashion - but its just not as simple as it seems.

    John K.
     
  20. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    Not always the case, and you know that.
     

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