Let's talk transformation complexity

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Shizuka, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    We've pretty much established that the DOTM figures are tailored to suit their key demographic - children. This has called for simplier transformations. What do you guys think?

    I for one enjoy complex transformations and though it took me over an hour to transform ROTF Leader Class Optimus Prime, it was really fun.

    However, I understand the need to simplify the transformations for the children.

    However, can it not be argued that this is what the other lines are for? Such as the FABs though this would mean kids don't get a quality figure like a deluxe.

    Would you have prefered if the DOTM line kept the complexity from ROTF then made another line of simplier Transformers?
     
  2. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    Are the FABs coming back for DOTM? I haven't seen any indication they were.

    I think the FABs may have been a little confusing for consumers - Having two sets of toys , but one is "easier" seems pretty straightforward, but that seemed lost (or inadequately described/explained) on many parents and 'average' buyers. (not to mention the FABs were only available at the deluxe size/price point) If that's the case, it seems reasonable Hasbro may have decided for DOTM to split the difference by eliminating FAB and making the main toy line a bit less complex and more play-oriented.
     
  3. CZ Hazard

    CZ Hazard Sons of Unicron PTT

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    I personally judge a figure on: look, character and transformation. I really liked the look of Buster Prime and ROTF Jetfire, but transforming them took the fun out of them for me. I still like the Buster Prime but after fighting with it for an hour I left him in robot mode and will continue to do so. Jetfire I display in alt mode, but is honestly terrible, I would be happier with a Blackbrid model kit.

    Overly complex transformations annoy the heck out of me, part of the fun as a kid was being able to transform Prime of Blaster in the time it took to make the transforming noise, because of this I wouldn't spend £200 on MP Rodimus.
    I also consider MP-01 a bit of a cheat because he has two radiator grills, one for each mode. It just seems silly to me, I can almost forgive it on Henkei where the smaller toy needs that heroic waistline, or Legends Optimus which has to do a lot with a little, but on MP01 it was a cheat, why would a transforming robot have two of something when it wasn't needed?
    I don't really mind what they do with the new movie line though, for me its all about Generations and Prime.
     
  4. Doctor Scalpel

    Doctor Scalpel Banned

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    A good balance would be nice. In essence too many moving parts can cause the figure to be too complex. However, if u can align these pieces later on after moving main parts, should be satisfying.
    The most amnoying figure I have ever transformed is ROTF Mixmaster. That figure was so complex with all the precise folding needed for the arms etc
     
  5. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    look character and fun, is what is all about, is right, i agree, and we have to remember that ALL OF THESE are toys, for kids. and lately they have been removing that factor.

    they are for 5 to 12 year olds, and we just happen to collect them because we like them, or what ever.

    they are not model kits, they are not supposed to take an hour to transform, a kid wants to play with it, like we did when we were young, we took the transformer then we transformed it quickly, because it was a g1 or a bw toy, and then we transformed it back, all 8 of those autobots, quickly, because they were being attacked by the decepticons.

    it makes playing with the toys so much less fun, IF YOU have to spend an hour to transform optimus prime!

    no kid is going to want to do that, they'd rather play a video game, where you are optimus prime as a truck, and then instantly a ROBOT.

    do you guys forget that kids want to play with these things? make war with the decepticons? have the autobots always lose?

    you know, like we all did when we were kids?

    to me those tough transformations are for the HA's, masterpieces, and alternators, the toys aimed at collectors. aimed at being accurate to the show. because fans care about that.

    but as kids, as a kid i didn't care that galvatron was not purple, but gray, i didn't care that his transformation was easy, I just liked playing with the toy, with the other toys, and having him do battle with rodimus prime.

    it is about selling play things to children. toys are play things, transformers are toys.

    that is all there is to it.

    and i think ROTF, went way too far on transformations, took all the fun out of it, all to make it more accurate. while it was all amazing engineering, as i said before, i could not recommend a single ROTF toy *regular line* to any kid 10 or younger, they just wouldn't be fun for them, because no 5 year old is going to be able to transform optimus prime, so he is going to ask mommy or daddy to do it everytime, and they are not going to want to do that, or they are going to try, and attempt, but then fail, then think they broke it because the arms popped off, so they take it back, and then we end up with miss transformed, miss packaged transformers, missing half the parts, like seen in the "not cool" thread.

    with bumblebee's missing head, or optimus prime's missing chest, or soundwave replaces with two tomatos...

    anyways my point is, if it keeps up like this parents will stop buying transformers.

    if parents stop buying transformers, the line will DIE.

    so if you want it to keep going, then the toy line needs to be easy for kids to transform BY themselves, during play time, alone, or with their friends, with out mommy or daddy trying to figure out a puzzled toy.
     
  6. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    That's a really good answer. And it's true, without kids then there will be not Transformers. Maybe in Japan they may produce the few collectable things but they'll be much more expensive. Unless the reboot the toyline as collector items.
     
  7. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    they also have to keep increasing the price tags on these too, because the complexity keeps going up, while i do agree the complexity should go up with the size and price *like a voyager should be more complex then a basic* but it should not take an HOUR for a kid to transform, i think 5 to 10 minutes at most.

    and the masterpieces and possibly the classics, *which are obviously aimed more at the collectors then the kids* can be more complexed toys.

    but the ones aimed at the kids, the movie toys, and the prime toys, let them be less complex.

    besides, just from the videos shown, i have to say ironhide *with recon's canons* looks MUCH more fun then the original movie version, or even the recon version.

    i think it just looks more fun, and more interesting. and MORE like a robot.

    i understand people want complex transformers, but they have to realize that parents DO NOT. lol is all i am saying.
     
  8. RipCurl

    RipCurl I just can't get enough!

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    I buy figures purely if I like the character ,think the transformations cool or simply just want that figure.


    For example, I really want the new scourge because of the transformation its just that awesome.

    I pass on figures if the transformation is too simple

    afterall they are transformers to me I want them to transform not simply turn something around and have a robot mode.

    ROTF Leader Prime when I had it was awesome because of the transformation and that it looked cool . Although I never transformed it alot as it did take up alot of time.

    To me it depends alot too on the moment. if I see a transformer and I have cash no doubt I'll buy it if its decent enough.

    Anyway thats my useless two cents
     
  9. Human Beastbox

    Human Beastbox The Murdinator

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    Maybe I'm just getting old or impatient, but an hour to transform a figure is anything but fun to me. It's bad enough that I have to reach for directions for the newer stuff all the time.
     
  10. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    A Transformer should be transformed within the timespan you make the transforming noise with your mouth. If it takes longer, it sucks.

    That's what I expected of a Transformer as a child.

    And I think that should be true still for today.
     
  11. Doctor Scalpel

    Doctor Scalpel Banned

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    Do u guys use the instructions on these things? Cause if you take an hour without instructions, I think it is okay.
    If you are using the instructions and still take an hour, then we can say the toy is complex.
    After all, youre just following instructions if you use the manual. Like origami. Anyone complain that origami is too complicated for kids?

    Kids aged 5 and above should be able to look at the instructions and follow step by step.

    *before I get slaughtered here, I'm merely suggesting that not using a manual can be a confounding factor in assessing if these toys are indeed too complicated for kids. I'm not dissing anyone and if I offended anyone, apologies and please don't be offended because I took 1 hr 45 on Rotf prime
     
  12. Rigas

    Rigas Well-Known Member

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    Transforming being the whole point of the toys is important. But not making it complicated for complicated's sake.

    complex transformations do necessarily make a toy good nor do simples ones make a toy bad. It's the over all toy that makes it good or bad. for example from the Generations line WFC Prime and Drift/Blurr. Prime is crazy complex for a deluxe and could easily be scaled up to voyager and Drift/Blurr is pretty simple. yet both are awesome toys and have been my desktops since they came out.

    But then MP Megatron so complicated that it lowers structural integrity and the thing snaps in half.
     
  13. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    I have Ironhide & Megatron and they still offer a good challenge. To say that ALL DOTM toys are "dumbed down" toys is a false statement.
     
  14. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    I like simpler transformations. I want it to be fun and not be irritating when I have to sit there for 5 minutes trying to figure it out and can't because a ball joint pops off 100 times because I move something the wrong way.
     
  15. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    The complexity of a transformation does NOT dictate how fun a transformation is.


    A complex transformation CAN be fun. It can also be not-so-fun.
    A simple transformation CAN be fun. It can also be not-so-fun.

    My satisfaction of transformation is fulfilled when a transformation is innovative, intuitive, and well executed.

    Innovative, by definition, means ingenius design in terms of mass-shifting, placement of parts, transformation schemes. Example: Animated Prowl

    Intuitive, does not imply simplicity, nor complexity. It is the nature of allowing the person to "get" a transformation without having to resort to instructions every time. For the record you CAN be complex and intuitive in transformation. Example: Human Alliance Jazz

    Well Executed, by definition, means that the design on paper translated well into the product. It means that having QC problems should not affect the form and function of the transformation process. I can't think of a staple example for this, but I can think of what is NOT good execution: ROTF deluxe Skids and Mudflap, ROTF Jetfire.
     
  16. megatroptimus

    megatroptimus Translatorminator

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    Tell me about it. When I saw the first reviews for Generations Thunderwing, I thought it was the most boring toy ever (read: since Movie 1 Scorponok or ROTF Ravage). When I finally got it from BBTS last week with Scourge, Wreck-Gar and Perceptor, it ended up being the toy I was going back to the most often. Simple but fun.
     
  17. TENIME_art

    TENIME_art Ethically Challenged

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  18. Doctor Scalpel

    Doctor Scalpel Banned

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    Good executions:
    Classics Starscream mold
    RTS Jazz
    FP Bruticus
     
  19. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Pretty much this. A 10yo shouldnt need a degree in engineering just to transform a toy. LOL
     
  20. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    agreed.
     

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