Let's Talk About Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TF Ultra Prime, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

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    Well said, and I agree on many points, although I would still argue that I don't believe it was necessary for Hot Rod to interfere in the battle. He crossed the line. Even for a character that's young, inexperienced, brash, headstrong and impatient, he should have known better than to interfere.

    True, he did try to save Prime from Megatron's treachery, and I'll admit that's a valid point. But prior to that, Hot Rod just yells out, "I've got to help Prime" and runs off like an idiot. It wasn't just brash, it was stupid. As Kup says, "That's Prime's fight." Like Prime couldn't handle himself? What the heck did Hot Rod possibly think he could do to help their greatest leader? It's the result of poor characterization and a weak script. I get that they were trying to establish that Hot Rod was nearby so he would jump out at the climactic moment in attempt to save Prime from Megatron's treachery, but having Hot Rod yell the earlier line and rush to Prime's "rescue" was ridiculous. And stupid.

    I would much rather have seen a "Morpheus is fighting Neo!" moment (appropriately from "The Matrix" which of course came later) from Hot Rod exclaiming to Kup and then running off. Who WOULDN'T have wanted to watch a showdown between Prime and Megatron! But "I've got to help Prime" was an moronic thing to say. Hot Rod wasn't a moron, but that line sure makes him seem like one.

    The only thing that would have made Prime's sacrifice more meaningful is if it had been established that he had a vision of Hot Rod's future and knew he would be the one "to light their darkest hour." Then it makes much more sense. But then again, to give that away so soon in the movie would've have spoiled a major plot point (although there are other hints/foreshadowing in the film).

    I also believe, as many have pointed out previously, that the dinky little laser pistol Megatron discovers and finishes Prime off with must have been one heck of a powerful weapon. Yes, Prime had already sustained serious injuries, but the little toy-looking gun blasts right through Prime's abdomen. And the SFX even sounds like Megatron's fusion cannon. That's yet another plot point I felt was too convenient and weak in the story.

    At any rate, I will always argue that Hot Rod's interference wasn't necessary. It's not a character-defining moment because it falls out of the story as soon as Prime dies. And it should have been important. Hot Rod could have felt a need to redeem himself for causing Prime's death. Instead, he's cracking jokes with the Quintessons and dancing on Junkion singing about "ninny bongs."
     
  2. Flint

    Flint Master of Useless Info

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    I'll always hate Hot Rod because he caused Optimus Prime's death in the movie. I like many others was scarred by that and never got over it :) 
     
  3. FlyerXL

    FlyerXL Member

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    I think in regards of the blaster weapon, Megatron aims for the wound that was exposed on Primes side. A few blaster shots there and it looked like he was shot clean through.
     
  4. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    Then the problem would be asking someone who is "young, inexperienced, brash, headstrong and impatient" to know better. His botched move to help Prime seems perfectly in line with the description you just gave him.

    I don't think Prime's death was rendered any less "meaningful" by him not picking Hot Rod to succeed him as he laid on his deathbed. I thought it adds a nice touch that he (and maybe by extension, the Matrix) couldn't quite find stable, long-term replacements for Prime.
     
  5. GENOZAUR

    GENOZAUR Banned

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    i went and left you a persone lmessage about rodimus and also included a quick short character driven scene i put together that i believe puts him through a good bit of positive character development
     
  6. E Nice

    E Nice Well-Known Member

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    I like Rodimus Prime. I liked the idea there was a new Prime, back in the 80's. As I rewatched the show as an adult I see Optimus more of an authoritarian figure while Rodimus was someone who delegated and was open to team input. Once Optimus laid down the law no one could change his mind unless something happened in the show to allow it. Rodimus didn't micromanage and allowed the Autobots to proceed at their own discretion.
     
  7. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

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    While its absolutely true that Hod-Rod's actions were not necessary tactically speaking, and I'm sure we can all agree that standing on the sideline shouting "lookout, hes got a f***ing gun!" would have been a better strategy, its purpose seems to me to enforce the tragedy of the situation, and show the 'heart' of Hot-Rod along with his immaturity.

    Had Prime died alone from an underhanded surprise shot by Megatron, some would ask 'Where were the Autobots?' (See ROTF Forrest battle, yes a gangup, but closest comparison). Likewise, if a random Autobot had accidentally walked in on the fight had been abducted for use as a 'human' shield, the loss would have had far less impact.

    Hod-Rod's unquestionable loyalty (and perhaps reverence) to Prime led him to launch himself headfirst towards possibly the most dangerous threat known to the Autobots at the time. It wasn't showing off, or 'acting hero', it was risking life for a bot he clearly felt dearly toward, (that was the reasoning for the "Got to help Prime" line IMO, to show the act was not a random display of bravado, but genuine concern).
    This is where I believe the tragedy is most felt; giving your all to save one you love, only to be used as a weapon against them, ensuring their fate. (A twisted act of irony befitting a ruthless villan's final stand).
    The most confronting aspect of this situation is that the audience is supposed to live vicariously through Hot-Rod's character. (This is where most people's resentment seems to come from -You killed Optimus Prime, with love, kind of :)  )

    While groups of Autobots splinter off later in the movie, it is apparent that the story itself is Hot-Rod's 'Hero's Journey'. The 'Daniel' character is offered for the very young to relate, but primarily Hot-Rod is the main protagonist to which the audience is supposed to connect to (They didn't hire Judd for nothing).
    The death of Prime (and the end of Act1) is basically the start of Hot-Rods journey of maturity. Starting from a bleak and unsettled beginning, the Audience is meant to feel empowered by Hot-Rod's growth and change- blagh blagh etc
    (It obviously didn't work as intended for some).

    What was the reason for showing Hot-Rod's 'heart' (His risk and unwavering determination for the sake of the [platonic] love for his Autobot family)? I figure that although it lead to tragedy when tempered with his inexperience, it was the very thing that helped the Autobots, and Cyberton, avert their darkest hour, and what the matrix recognised in him on contact.
    -Edit. I probably should expand that his final confrontation (for "Prime's soul" ie. the Matrix) with Galvatron (Who for all intents and purposes represents a powered up Megatron) was his redemption from his original failure. Facing his demons/ worst fear, it was won by his 'heart' coupled with his attained experience and confidence. -hey, even Optimus approved

    (...Well, its a kids show after all, so it needs moral lessons and enforcement)

    I like to think the dinky laser pistol just happened to hit the spots already damaged and weakened by light-sabers and giant splinters. -Edit as mentioned by FlyerXL
     
  8. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with what you said here. I'll be honest and admit that I watched G1 later as an adult and the movie was one of the first things I was exposed to. I found Rodimus' character very interesting, and this led me to start my G1 journey with Season 3 despite having watched More Than Meets the Eye before that.

    I identified with Rodimus more than Optimus. Optimus was like someone to look up to, the awesome infallible hero, but I felt for Rodimus' insecurities, his being thrust into a world of responsibility from being a punk. It's like being the new boss on the job that has such high expectations. His "whines" and complaints reminded me of my own problems when given responsibility. He's more down-to-earth in that respect.
     
  9. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    I got a little "bent" over that moment as well. I really liked Hot Rod up to that point. Then Rodimus was involved with Optimus getting killed again in Headmasters. When Cybertron later gets destroyed, what does Rodimus do? He leaves the Autobots (in shock) and puts Fortress in charge never to be seen again in G1 amimation. At least Rodimus took Blurr and Kup with him. My Classics Hot Rod will never get the "Protector" upgrade. I so agree with so much of what Optimus Prime said in "Rude Awakening". Also I do prefer the the term, "Momentary One" to the "Chosen One". :) 
     
  10. jksit1

    jksit1 The Chosen One

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    The Rodimus hate plague is still amoung us and the following steps must be taken to stop it...
    Release!!!!
    Masterpiece Rodimus Prime
    Fansproject Protector
    Animated Rodimus Minor.

    This is the Year for RP! Like it or not he is here to stay.
     
  11. aprim

    aprim Well-Known Member

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    Here's a question, Prime only spoke of a Autobot that would rise from the ranks to "light there darkest hour". He never said Ultra Magnus wasn't gonna lead the Autobots.

    Here's my thinking,

    Rodimus was the one who the Matrix picked to kill Unicron, not to lead the autobots.

    Much like King Authur, who after removing the sword from the stone became King but after years of mentoring from Merlin.
    Maybe Rodimus was the Protector, but wasn't meant to lead..Hot Rod didn't chose to lead the Autobots, he was appointed after killing Unicron. Maybe Ultra Magnus gave it up to easy to Rodimus. Maybe Rodimus should of had more mentoring before he took the lead.

    Prime gave it to Ultra Magnus and said "I wasn't worthy either". Maybe they misread what he was saying.

    Hot Rod opens the matix to kill Unicron, Ultra Magnus leads and passed it to Rodimus once he gets more seasoned.
    Sounds good to me.
     
  12. Matty

    Matty @StayingInTheBox Veteran

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    The only problem I have with this reasoning is how the Matrix of LEADERSHIP chose Hot Rod. The Matrix is carried by the leader of the Autobots and the Matrix may very have well chosen Hot Rod to destory Unicron, but in the long run I think Hot Rod was suppose to develop into a true Autobot leader. The only problem, Hot Rod was incredibly young, impatient, and just not mature enough to handle the responsibility. So maybe your reasoning of letting Ultra Magnus carry the Matrix until Hot Rod could develop more experience would work out, but that'd be too easy huh? :lol 
     
  13. LEADERS_MATRIX

    LEADERS_MATRIX Wisdom of the ages...

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    I like this outlook, I would think being the runner up to Optimus would be ruff on any bot that would have been choosen by the Matrix, OP was the greatest Prime of them all and he cast a huge shadow.
     
  14. Rodimus_Prime

    Rodimus_Prime Until all are one!

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    I like Hotrod and Rodimus Prime.... introduce me to the world of transformers in the animated movie. But in Season 3 the characterization of Rodimus Prime as sort of a doubter was just too much. I understand the self doubt, but whomever was responisble for that didnt do a good job with Rodimus Prime. Conveying the message of overcoming self doubt is a sign of a great leader... and they(writers) didn't convey and/or portray that in Rodimus Prime.

    If I had a chance I would rewrite season 3 even though there are some great episodes in it... and present a different portrayal of Rodimus Prime. One that would eventually follow the footstep of the Greatest Transformers in Optimus Prime. And truely depict the character of the chosen one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  15. Guardian_Prime

    Guardian_Prime Autobot Leader

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    Hot Rod didn't kill Optimus; Perceptor did. His horrible skills as a mechanic are what did Prime in. Ratchet would have had him up and running in no time.
     
  16. Shockwave 75

    Shockwave 75 Master of the Rules.

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    Let me preface my following comments by sayin that I like Hot Rod, always have. But I hate Rodimus Prime.
    I'll tell you why I dislike this argument.

    They had 28 episodes to take Rodimus from emo-whiner to effective leader before the events of TROOP. I'm all for the character being unsure about his abilities as a leader following in the footsteps of Optimus, but they should have gotten past that little character flaw a lot faster, like say, by the end of FFOD, if not shortly thereafter.
    If he had been a more confident character, with his own unique command style, so as not to just be an Optimus clone sooner in S3 he might not be so reviled now.

    I've always maintained that the timeline of these episodes is fairly ambiguous. Just because the episodes aired one after the other on a daily basis, doesn't meant that's how the events in them played out. Events/episodes could actually be days/weeks/months apart. Sure the season started in 2006, but by the time we reach TROOP it could very well be closer to 2010. So there would have been plenty of time to justify him going from unsure to self assured in 5-7 episodes.

    I like how you think. My thought about Rodimus and his function of "Protector" are thus: I think that Ultra Magnus was meant to lead the Autobots and RP was meant to protect the Matrix until the "once and future king" (to expand on your Arthurian metaphore), Optimus Prime, could return. Not to lead the Autobots himself. Even what he did in the movie jibes with this; he "protected" them from Unicron.

    Like he said in "Dark Awakening", I think he was just supposed to "keep the Matrix warm" for Optimus.
     
  17. Ray Kremer

    Ray Kremer Well-Known Member

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    Putting aside the characterization, I'm a sucker for the character design, and later toys based on it. The sleek car design, that awesomely ridiculous huge spoiler wing (in both modes), the flames on red coloring. Hot Rod/Rodimus is just flat out one of the coolest looking Transformers ever.