Kurtzman & Orci

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by monosierra, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    Really on the roll these days. IIRC, they were paid $8 million for the ROTF script. But they aren't hacks - they did a good job with Star Trek with JJ Abrams, meaning they've written both the best reviewed and worst reviewd summer tentpoles this year (!)

    Anyone really thinks these guys should go? (Or blame Bay, the third writer etc)
     
  2. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    Ebay:
    They aren't bad, they just have their hands tied with Bay. I mean, reading that the twins were initially written as Sideswipe and Sunstreaker makes me angry that Bay changed that.
     
  3. ANDROID PRIME

    ANDROID PRIME Well-Known Member

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    there was also a writers strike and bay had to keep shooting during it. think about it bay filled in the blanks
     
  4. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Wait, now who are we blaming what on? Blame indicates that someone did something wrong, and that they should receive the blame.

    I think 400Million dollars would like for you to change your words to "Congratulate" as I am sure Paramount is not looking to "blame" anyone for anything.
     
  5. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I disagree.
    I walked out of the theater better about Terminator Salvation than I did Star Trek.
    Star Trek was another- like ROTF- where the spectacle overshadowed the writing.
     
  6. TankRizzo

    TankRizzo Well-Known Member

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    They're not the best guys in town, but I have nothing but respect for Bob Orci. The man puts himself out there on all of the boards to give info and take criticism ranging from "OMG, YOU SUCK, YOU'RE A HACK" to actual constructive criticism.

    As an artist, that's how you get better. You listen to the criticism and then go about fixing things people don't like.

    Michael Bay is at the opposite end of the spectrum, he takes constructive criticism and gives the input givers the finger and then just showcases all of the bad elements over and over. As an artist, he fails. Transformers is hugely successful though, you can't argue with that, but I think ILM deserves far more credit than he does. His last 3 movies prior to TF have been nothing but a steady decline. It's sad that he's being rewarded for his childish behavior. He's regressed as an artist.

    The point here is that Star Trek proved that Orci/Kurtzman's work CAN be turned into something great...just not in the hands of Bay.
     
  7. Bottom Out

    Bottom Out Well-Known Member

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    they need to be gone, they dont have what it takes to write a GOOD transformer script. They see the movies as just a job, not something they are passionate or even fans of. Find someone who will take care and pride in thier writing for the next movie. They had to be convinced/persuaded twice to write these movies...seriously? convinced?


    the writers wrote a bad movie, the money aspect doesnt matter...lil wayne went platinum and hes no where near good, not even close. Hype sold this movie...but in its defense it is a fun ride, but as a movie it is extremely lacking
     
  8. NitrogenB

    NitrogenB Well-Known Member

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    Although I may like some of his movies, I agree with you 100% here. Bay needs to be slapped really hard one good time. It might knock some ego out the side of his head. I can't stand him as a person, and some very legitimate criticisms go unheeded because they won't fit into his already overly bloated head.

    That being said, I quite enjoyed Transformers 2. I just don't like Bay.


    As far as Orci and Kurtzman, I think they are very stand-up guys. I liked the script in Star Trek a lot, thought it was pretty solid. They may not be the best in the business, as someone before me said; but I still think they are decent and will only get better.
     
  9. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Star Trek was fucking awesome.

    Transformers 2? Not so much.

    There are reasons why things are how they are, the blame on this one lies with the studio and their need to have this out for summer. Nowhere else.

    Not that it matters... look at the gross. It's gross.
     
  10. TFfan08

    TFfan08 Vigilante

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    If the writers wrote a awful script, there is also mistake from Director and Producer to allow the script to the movie.
     
  11. TankRizzo

    TankRizzo Well-Known Member

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    Before Transformers came along, he was eating humble pie. Pearl Harbor, while big, didn't meet studio expectations. Bad Boys II only made it out of the theaters domestically $8 million in the black from the budget. The Island was a TOTAL flop and left the theaters domestically $90 million in the negative of the budget.

    Then along comes Spielberg with the goose that lays golden eggs. A franchise that's been around for decades, is a recognizable name brand and had an installed fanbase. Sadly he didn't go with his first instinct and turn down the offer, but he wound up taking it. People aren't going to see it because it was a Bay movie, they're going to go see Optimus Prime and the brilliant work of the guys at ILM. But here we are, his head is re-inflated, his ego reinvigorated and he just made the worst movie of his career critically and it's only going to get worse.
     
  12. Blackout

    Blackout Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  13. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    I like the TF movies, I just wish that Bay would just direct and not have leagues of creative control. Where as Abrams had full collaboration with them Bay (due in part to the strike) took what they wrote and did what he thought was best. Which actually is far from it. Example- even Bob Orci isn't sure if Arcee died or not. It's all what Bay wants.
     
  14. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Wait, what? Where did you read that?

    No, the strike was waaay before shooting started. If it had occurred during shooting, there'd have been much less of a problem.

    Well, depends on who you ask. In some people's opinion, a "professional" articst is someone who is above all criticism and just follows his vision isntead of pandering to the base.
     
  15. Alienbot

    Alienbot Well-Known Member

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  16. TankRizzo

    TankRizzo Well-Known Member

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    For starters Bay is a commercial artist (so you can argue that one either way). But for an artist to get to the level of being above criticism one would assume that they have attained a level of proficiency in their art. He has mastered the visual and technical aspect of movie making, but Bay is no Kubrick. When he grasps the concept of pacing, storytelling and comedic timing he can freelance and be artistic.
     
  17. BingoBrown

    BingoBrown Well-Known Member

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    This thread has more intelligent discussion than the rest of the threads in the Movie forum combined. I'm wondering if this has a lot to do with the fact that the TF2-loving kids (OMG! BEST MOVIE 4 EVERZ!!!) don't even know who Orci & Kurtzman are.

    Star Trek was awesome. TF2 was enjoyable, but not awesome. Orci & Kurtzman wrote both scripts. Michael Bay directed the non-awesome movie. Coincidence? I don't think so.

    I'm betting a significant portion of TF2's flaws are due to the writer's strike. Orci & Kurtzmann probably didn't have the ability to guide Bay on their script, make tweaks when things didn't work out, or argue with Bay when he wanted to make stupid changes. TF1 proved that Bay can churn out a decent movie, he just needs to stick to his role of making sure things blow up good.
     
  18. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that's one reason why I started this thread.
     
  19. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Ok, back to the topic of...

    Orci and Kurtzman!

    I don't think these guys are good writers at all. Their writing leaves a lot to be desired. And the seem to have a penchant for plot holes. I am not sure if they were even fans of either Star Trek or Transformers before they wrote those movies.

    These guys epitomize cliched, formulaic Hollywood. The thing people don't realize is they're riding on the coat-tails of established franchises and using current technology to re-create them for the new millenium. But as we're seeing with TF2 - after the initial razzle dazzle of the newness of old characters has worn off, we're left with a horrible excuse for a story. We like these movies because of nostalgia - NOT for the plot, story telling, or characterization.
     
  20. eclipse_prime

    eclipse_prime autobot

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    michael bay said this in an interview:

    Bay: I can only compare it to the first movie. The hardest thing for a director trying to set up a franchise is establishing tone. I wanted it to be edgy enough to be cool for older kids but accessible to kids and moms and I wanted it to be funny. We did a lot of improv and I hired funny actors who could do that. Steven [Spielberg] called me up and said, “Mike, you’re shooting a lot of stuff that’s not in the script.” I said, “Steven, some of it is going to suck, but some of it will be gems in the movie.” That’s how I work. I will say it made them nervous until they saw the final result, how much the audience liked it and the tone that it set for the franchise.
     

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