Cyclonus is not part of the recent wave of knockoffs from the last 2 or so years. The most recent wave of knockoffs does not have the little black sticker with the Chinese name in the corner. The Cyclonus does. Chinese Cyclonus is a warehouse find of a Chinese release. As for whether he's a knockoff or not, it's debateable. It's generally agreed that the releases that have the "(C) Hasbro etc. etc." on the box blacked out are knockoffs. However, it's unclear whether those Chinese releases that have the little sticker in the corner but do not have the "(C) Hasbro etc. etc." blacked out on the box are licensed releases. But regardless of whether it's a knockoff or not, it was released in the 90's, not recently. The reason there are a lot of them around recently is because of the recent warehouse find.
"Copyrights protect nonfunctional items from being copied. In order to show copyright infringement, one must show that the infringing item was copied from the original. The copyrighted artistic expression must either have no substantial practical utility (e.g. a statue) or be separable from the useful substrate (e.g. picture on a coffee mug). Design patents, on the other hand, protect the ornamental aspects of functional items from being infringed." TF toys, despite being mechanical designs that serve the purpose of being reconfigurable from one shape to another, count as nonfunctional items? If so, yeah, that clears things up.
You don't have to fit squarely into one category or the other. There's overlap. Swoop is both design patentable and protected under copyright. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/1500_1512.htm
I didn't outright say that, what I said was in reference to the statement that this KO will cause HasTak to lose huge amounts of money and usher in an era of economic recession followed by the apocalypse. We don't have actual sales figures (that I know of) for the reissues, but the secondary market values for items such as Soundwave, Soundblaster, Minibots, Insecticons, Megatron, Prime, etc indicate that there is demand for them.
Amen. Preach it, brother. Oh, and I'm still waiting for someone to point me in the direction of these mythical $70 perfect condition original boxed Swoops. Anyone? Bueller?
Any idea how much they'd have to alter? http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Knockoffs/Snarl1.html Apparently TRU stocked these back in the day. True, but current KOs being sold without the Autobot logo and without the names suggest the producers are confident Takara would have a difficult job stopping them as long as they avoid trademark infringement.
IMHO they'd have to alter a lot. At that point it would, as you said, boil down to the case law for similar situations. The fact that TRU stocked altered knockoffs long ago doesn't prove much. When I was a few years old, my TRU sold knockoffs of Reflector that looked just like the original. Then, in the 90's, my TRU sold knockoffs of Sky Garry that looked just like the original and a Voltron I knockoff that only had some altered coloring. In light of that, it seems clear that companies like TRU don't make the decisions to carry knockoffs because they think the knockoffs don't infringe copyright. They probably make the decision to carry them because they're not aware that the toys are copies. For all they know, the knockoffs are original designs. (Except for maybe Wal-Mart, because those guys are seriously assholes ) I agree that not copying the logos and names suggests some degree of caution on the part of the knockoff makers. However, there are plenty of knockoffs being sold with the Autobot logos (the combiner knockoffs that are everywhere) and with the names (the KO that this thread is about). And furthermore, the fact that some knockoff companies try to avoid trademark infringements on top of their already blatent copyright infringements seems to me to suggest that they're just trying not to attract Hasbro and Takaratomy's attention, not that they think they have a viable defense if they were ever sued. What you have to understand is that people don't always make decisions about how much to alter something based on exacting knowledge of intellectual property law. They often get it wrong, or they just don't really care whether they're violating someone's intellectual property. That's what makes up a good chunk of the case law--people who got it wrong i.e. people who were found liable for infringing copyright
"One of the only real ways to tell the difference of the KO cassettes is to touch them. The materials of them are different than vintage. Right down to the card stock used for the packaging. The new ones are made of a more pliable plastic than the original stuff, like all of the toys of today. Plus the weapons are more 'crisp' and the edges are more 'sharp' than the originals. I have not received my shipment of Optimus Prime figures yet but when I do, I will do a good inspection of them. Here is a little bit of information regarding these KO figures. The factory that is doing them is an old HASBRO factory that was sold off a long time ago and these figures are all being done USING ORIGINAL MOLDS that have been cleaned up. Course all the packaging is new and a lot of the construction is using todays standards so there are differences in the product. Still, it is hard to really call them KOs if they are using original molds. Go figure. Spencer." taken from the toyark thread concerning lazorbeaks KO
It's a real shame these KO's are made for the Ebay, to fool TF collectors. If they were made to be sold in the chinese markets like other Chinese KO toys, I'd be happy to buy it. As it is. they'll probably going to be sold on Ebay for 100-200$ which is a too high price for me, no matter how good it is.. I'd buy it for 20-30$ at most.
And what about about those of us who don't want to see this hobby drowning in a sea of fakes? It's not about money, contrary to received wisdom, it's about knowing that you're getting the real deal.
i don't collect transformers BECAUSE they're "TRANSFORMERS ©" i collect and buy them because they're cool as hell toys that transform. i'd collect go-bots too if they were cool as hell, but, they arnt, and IN MY OPINION, it just so coincidently happens that I PREFER this "brand" of transformeing toy. if some other shmo wants to remake a toy that i think is cool as hell, i'm gunna buy it, regardless of what i feel for the company or, toyline wich the original idea came from. hasbro and takara had the chance to re-issue these, the factory that IS REMAKING THEM was a hasbro factory, using hasbro molds, using todays standard of material to make them. the way i see it, same toy, same cool factor. as for drowning in a sea of fakes... thats just some collectors opinions, and is valid, as you can see here, that the oposite is also true. alot of us DON"T CARE. the way i see it, is now you just don't have it as easy. you have your job cut out for you finding an original. Sometimes the hunt is just as exciting as having it. i know for me it was with certain items. The fanbase can bitch and complain all they like, it's not going to stop anyone, or change anything. ... just like the movie. wich i'm going to enjoy very much.
I've only ever seen a couple, and I'm still kicking myself for missing the end of an auction for a horned Grimlock -- boxed and everything. Still, I'm sure someone got it who'll appreciate it. Most people don't have a great deal of sympathy. Sorry. Equally, I doubt it'd bother most if the packaging was totally different and there were clear unobtrusive differences to the moulding/paintjob -- it's a version of a character, the same as the Joustra releases of Starscream and Reflector. Incidentally, for those who've never owned one, Swoop's probably the weakest design out of the Dinobots. Does look nice lined up with the others though, and if you stick him on a riser the size difference isn't all that noticeable.
Was this a few months ago? If so, I saw it and was sorry to miss it too. At the same time as that auction, there was another for the winged Sludge...that went for over $70!! As much as I want them, I'm not willing to pay that price!
Yeah. Fairly sure it was a UK seller and that it went pretty cheaply IIRC. The Sludge is most obviously and creatively different, so I can imagine it going for a bit more, but thirty quid (~$60) for any of them is probably a decent price when they come up, considering the cost of originals, the fact the KOs are far more scarce, the construction quality, etc. (Except the Snarl doesn't actually look very good, IMO...)
