Justitoys warning...

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Delta Star, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. Delta Star

    Delta Star <b>Reprolabels.com</b> TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't know if this has been posted yet:
    http://www.justitoys.hk/proof.htm

    Ok, so the warning isn't that newsworthy as is, but who is making these knock-offs?

    If anyone knows more, I'd like to see pics. Maybe they'll do recolors :) 
     
  2. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    heheh. KOs of KOs. the irony.
     
  3. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    I like Justitoys. But them whining about being knocked-off is like returning your mod chip to Sony for repairs.
     
  4. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Indeed, a Fake KO, now that's funny! :lol 
     
  5. REDLINE

    REDLINE longer days, plz? Veteran

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    that's not true. Justitoys made their own molds of a toy that has never been made before. There were no WST Dinobots until they showed up. Even if they didn't come up with the original dinobot design, they still have a right to complain.
     
  6. Blitzwing

    Blitzwing Enigmatic by nature

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    Is indeed pretty hilarious. Its like robbing a burglar. :D 
    I was worried for a sec though, thought maybe they weren't going to make any more of the awesome little things.
     
  7. Swoop

    Swoop Well-Known Member

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    That's open to argument. Justitoys are presumably a fairly small company and as such probably have limited resources. The WST Snarl seems rather too slick for such an undersized item (it's even based on the Diaclone, instead of G1, Snarl). I wouldn't be surprised if it's done in the same way as all those undersized/oversized gestalts, albeit with better production values.


    When you don't own something, you don't have the right to complain about someone copying it. What they're doing is illegal and pretty unethical, by creating undersized copies of toys that Hasbro/Takara own, and making a profit off it to boot.
     
  8. flux convoy

    flux convoy RIP Botcon.

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    I dunno if anyone else noticed but I sure as hell want Snarl's card and whatever that calender turns out to be. I'm hoping those will be available with the later Dinorobots. I love the little guys. Fo shizzle.
     
  9. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    While its true that the company did create toys that neither Hasbro and TakaraTomy never created but is it legal? As in did Jtoys pay for any licensing fees or anthing? I'm just curious that's all.
     
  10. Denyer

    Denyer Shooty Dog Thing

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    I'm not entirely sure that they do -- for instance, a fourteen year patent was filed for the Soundwave design in the US, which has long since expired. IIRC, patent protections are stronger than copyright protections, but have a limited lifespan and are explicitly released at the end of the period -- hence companies usually prefer to stick to copyright.

    If they refrain from using trademark names/symbols, JIT might be in the clear.
     
  11. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    That, and the size change and other discrepancies might constitute enough of a difference from the original toy from a legal perspective.
     
  12. Delta Star

    Delta Star <b>Reprolabels.com</b> TFW2005 Supporter

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    FWIW, patents apply to the functionality of the product. The Dinobot patent may be expired, but the copyright would still apply. Based on the idea that the the dinos were a work of sculpture, then these are copies. So, one can make a different Dinobot that happens to transform the same way, because the patent is expired, but one needs permission to reproduce the Dinobots faithfully. Size doesn't matter. I can't sell an Eminem song under my name just because I change the volume, and you can't recreate a sculpture just because you alter the scale.

    That said, this is a civil matter between two parties, and nobody here really knows if Hasbro: 1) Has an official arrangement with Justi, 2) Has an UNofficial arrangement with Justi or 3) Gives a damn at all. I suspect the latter. And the fact is, if HASBRO is aware and made the decision to allow this, then there's no sense in the rest of us getting bent out of shape about it. We don't own TFs.
     
  13. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    damn straight.

    TFs own us.
     
  14. Denyer

    Denyer Shooty Dog Thing

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    You can if the precedent set by, say, personal CD players is anything to go by. The "compact disc" logo remains under trademark protection by Philips, but anyone can build a device identical to the early patented designs.

    Songs and other works of art aren't typically patented because, as you note, a patent refers to a device or method for performing a function in a particular way.

    http://www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/USD0285464__

    ^ For example, the patent for Soundwave refers to "The ornamental design for a reconfigurable toy cassette, substantially shown as described."

    Patent protection of that design has expired. Whereas another manufacturer couldn't reproduce elements covered by trademark (Soundwave/Decepticon, the Decepticon logo) and the patent intentionally omits trademark elements -- otherwise they'd be defeating the possible duration of trademark protection -- the design as detailed and illustrated is fair game.

    Copyright is the least of the three protections, and substantially following the expired patents (if they exist for the Dinobots, which is likely) with detail variations is probably more than enough -- it already seems the company has taken legal advice by not calling the releases Grimlock, Slag, etc.
     
  15. Sonscreen

    Sonscreen Casual TF collector<br><b><font color=#FF0000>aksm TFW2005 Supporter

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    Speak for yourself.

    <Sonscreen starts bowing to his Masterpiece Prime>

    Back to topic. Hee hee a copy of a copy is pretty funny. Though I have to say the mini Dinobots are pretty well made.
     
  16. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    QFT damn straight.
     
  17. MikeTSI

    MikeTSI The Reclaimer TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't see where the link that Delta Star led us too shows Justittoys whining. I see a page warning their customers that there is someone selling lower quality product as a JUSTITTOY's product. It's a warning, so people don't get duped into buying a piece of crap thinking it's a quality piece like what JIT sells. Nothing more.

    This isn't an issue of the JIT products being legal. It's an issue of someone else using their name and selling an inferior product. That would be like JIT using hasbro's name.



    Mike
     
  18. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    dude, your totally on point there. good call.
     
  19. jestermon

    jestermon Well-Known Member

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    ya

    Ya, it does not seem like whining to me either, it is nothing different from when Hasbro started the rub stickers back in the 80's to tell the cutomer it was a "real" Transformer.

    Also, I am sure they have gotten calls or some kind of reaction for something someone sold claiming to be their product but is not.
     
  20. Might Gaine

    Might Gaine The Devil Express

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    For some reason I feel like Justitoys is somehow more than just a knockoff company (from a personal rather than legal perspective). It seems to me like they're fans making fan versions of the Dinobots, not simply copying them. The artwork, attempt to stay away from using the names, the website, and the limited runs they do for TFsource make me feel this way.

    On the other hand, the Frenzy/Laserbeak tape and Optimus Prime knockoffs feel like nothing but knockoffs to me. They're the same size as the original, the packaging is designed to make you think they are the originals, they're all sold through Ebay mostly, and any weird variation they create feels like it's created to cash in on the molds rather than to create a unique homage to a varitiation of the toy/character (I mean 40 gold tapes?? Justitoys never makes more than 10, and they make them prizes instead of selling them for an exhorbitant amount.)

    So, I feel more sympathetic to Justitoys being knocked off, even if there is no legal protection for it. It's feels to me more like if somone ripped off your fanfic or fanart. But that's just me.
     

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