Just realized stores are not taking returns on MP-09, not even POL..

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Alucard77, May 12, 2011.

  1. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,633
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +4
    So I was on BBTS looking at MP-09 v2 and I came across this message:

    That kinda blows. More of the fans being screwed really. I mean their policy has always been that you can return something in your pile of loot. All the sudden that policy is changed?

    Where would blame be put here? I mean, I guess it will depend on the users who respond to this thread. These are three types of responses I am expecting:
    1- The user should have seen reviews and seen that the MP-09 had QA issues, so when they purchased they knew what they were purchasing.
    2- BBTS has to do something to cover their butt. What will they do with all those MP09s
    3- Takara is messed up and really peeing on fans now.

    My personal opinion is that BBTS really should not change their policy, and if people want to fight this, they legally can fight this. No if ands or buts about it. Legally, you can fight this. At the time of purchase the rules were different then after the purchase was made. So if you are really upset, just get a friend who is a lawyer draft you a letter, guarantee you get a refund.

    Now, I personally do not blame BBTS for this practice change. At this moment they still have 266 MP-09 v1 in stock. If you go by what they charge, that is $55,857.34 in possible loss (what they paid and profit). That is not counting what they have in terms of users who have this in their POL. So I feel bad for them.

    What BBTS should do is:
    1- Stop the sale of the MP-09 v1. If not stop the sale, they should at the very least post a message about the new MP-09 v2. That will only be good for their own business in the long run. Why would you sell your customers something you know is broken.

    2- BBTS should send all of their MP-09 v1 back to Takara and demand a refund on their end. If any other product had major malfunctions, a company could not get away with releasing a "fixed" version and screwing their resellers or their clients. They would need to do a recall, provide a fix or upgrade for the product. By BBTS not sending back their stock the faults of said product goes directly on the consumer.

    Just do me a favor and keep in mind that not everyone who is buying MP09 v1 is looking over sites and so on to find all the reviews for it. Some people go on instinct. While you may think these people are "stupid", it is still important to defend these consumer's rights.

    3- If BBTS and other stores sent back all of their stock, then Takara would have to take note in their QA issues. they could not continue with shoddy QA practices.

    Realistically if you disagree with me here, you are supporting a horrible precedent. An established company could easily make a new business model where they don't bother with QA at all. Sell the product and have the purchaser be the tester. A profit is made off the broken items.

    Then they release a fix with no need for a QA budget. Original owners are now beta testers of said product which they pay the for the rights to do.

    I know you guys love supporting corporations, but unless there is a mass return from the vendor end on MP-09 v1, how will Takara ever learn.

    Isn't any one else here tired of the consumer constantly paying for the corporations mistake?
     
  2. exclusacon

    exclusacon Expert with the Scopes!

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Posts:
    7,689
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +1
    But honestly, how would they know?
     
  3. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,633
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +4
    How would who know? Takara? They invest in QA. Trust me, the first place my company cuts is QA.

    Companies look at where they can cut costs, look at Toyota as a good example. Only with all the attention did they reinvest in QA. It's not like they didn't know.
     
  4. Torque

    Torque The WORDSMITH

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Posts:
    11,327
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    221
    Likes:
    +6
    whats the difference between the 2 versions?
     
  5. Takeshi357

    Takeshi357 "Research"

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Posts:
    4,551
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +20
    Suddenly, I'm reminded of that MMO that Gamestop continued selling despite the service had been discontinued...and wouldn't accept any returns, meaning they knowingly sold a PC game that most definitely would NOT work!
     
  6. Thundershot

    Thundershot The guy with 28 Sweeps

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2002
    Posts:
    21,314
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +288
    Ebay:
    Technically, there's a time limit on how long you have to cancel something in the POL. If that time passes (I think it's two weeks), then BBTS under no obligation to cancel that piece. They USUALLY do it as a courtesy, but for this particular piece, they probably don't want to get stuck with a bajillion MP Rodimus v1.

    So no, there's no legal anything... Anyone who has MP Rodimus in their POL right now has most likely already passed the 14 day limit on canceling...
     
  7. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,633
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +4
    Right, I am talking about the time limit. I am sure that people ordered two weeks before the announcement. Other then that, still SOL.

    But the whole selling what you know has QA issues is bad for business.
     
  8. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Posts:
    32,062
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +11
    I'll just continue to avoid this mold altogether.
     
  9. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,633
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +4
    That is kinda sad, cause it looks pretty good. I actually am seeing if Hasbro does a US release of it. Should be slightly better QA after the third iteration and also save some money.
     
  10. kmoua7

    kmoua7 TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Posts:
    4,454
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +13
    I think their return policy is actually 30days though for store credit. So, technically if you have something in you POL for less than 30days you could get store credit for it.

    BigBadToyStore.com Help
     
  11. Dr. Grimlockisking

    Dr. Grimlockisking Twitter @GrimlockIsKing TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Posts:
    2,611
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    196
    Likes:
    +2
    Ebay:
    Honestly, what difference does it make? You either A) Bought the toy because you wanted it then, or B) held out for QC or funds issues. If after reading reviews or what not, you decided to wait, good for you and now you don't have to worry about said issues.

    Toys aren't exempt from the same issues other companies do, whether it's electronics, vehicles, appliances, what not, almost EVERYTHING has a second, third, fourth release to fix issues. But to try and make it a legal issue when it's a niche hobby and think the company is intentionally trying to screw everyone over? Please. On what grounds? You're dealing with international companies, with resellers and with an item that would cost you far more in legal fees for them to even LOOK at the damned document, than it would be to buy the new version and sell the old. That said, is Takara immune from QC problems? Nope. But what would you rather have, them NOT address it so an awesome mold is completely jacked, or address it like they did and you have the option? It's not like this hasn't happened before (remember Cosmic rust on MP-05, or the chest pieces not shutting completely on MP-01?)

    I get where you're coming from, but it's pointless to try and turn it into something that will NEVER happen. You want to spend thousands of dollars to fight a case you'll lose? Hey, go for it. But once again, you're blaming the messenger or distributor for the makers problems.

    Contrary to your personal feelings, a company is under NO obligation to keep their rules the same. There is no written contract, electronic contract or otherwise for BBTS to keep doing things the way they do. At any time they could pull the plug on the PoL completely if they so choose. No matter how much you think there is a legal leg to stand on, there isn't. There is no guarantee of contract, there is no guarantee of anything, it even states in there your PoL can be reversed for 15 days for an item for store credit. Anything after that is on you. It states they can also hold items for 180 days, but can be shorter dependent on warehouse space. Unless you have a signed, formal document stating these issues, you WILL lose. Sure you could sue and try to get them to do it, but what will that really accomplish? Ticking them off so they shut it down completely? Have fun dealing with the fandom and everyone else after you do that. It's their right as a company. Just as it is Takara's right to fix or not fix problems.

    Yeah, we all want corporations to fix problems, but there are avenues to get it fixed. You contact the company responsible, and it moves forward. Enough people did that at Toyota. You're also talking about $12000-$65000 vehicles with REAL safety hazards. Of course they will fix it. What's been the problems on these, springs and or cracked plastic? That pretty much all retailers have been working with collectors to get fixed?

    I don't deny that Takara had issues with the first release. I was fortunate enough to get one of them that did not have those problems. Rare, I know. But really, what more do you want from them? Every retailer that bought this from them knew there was always the potential for problems. Just like they always know there is a potential for items to go unsold.

    I understand where you're coming from, and you don't want to see fellow collectors get screwed over with shoddy QA, but I don't agree with the methodology you're trying to implement. It's doomed to fail. The retailers have been helpful to everyone I've seen on here that's had issues, and Takara has taken steps to correct them. It's not like you can issue a recall on a high end collectible toy the way you can an automobile. It just doesn't work that way. Trying to make it a legal issue with a reputable company that caters to the fandom isn't the way to make it work either. I don't have a perfect way to handle that, and I admit it, but working with whomever you bought from, waiting for the second release, or abstaining from purchasing are the recourses available, and none of those are unreasonable to me.
     
  12. havanowoncheese

    havanowoncheese Proud No Ma'amer!

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Posts:
    2,934
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +0
    Do not blame BBTS for selling the product. Places sell products all the time with issues you blame the manufacturer not the retailer. I mean when the iphone 4 was dropping calls if you held it wrong it was not atts fault but rather apple. Of course as much as i love my mac and ipod i cannot deny steve jobs is a moron for than blaming the consumer for holding it wrong. I digress.

    You are right that people that kept the figure in their pol for so long are sol and that is a risk of using POL. HOnestly stop thinking everyone is out to screw you over...
     
  13. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,633
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +4
    I would love to know what Takara's policy in taking back items. They really should take back items for messed up product.

    Realistically, if I was BBTS, as much as I know that people want MP, I would order a significantly smaller amount in the next order. How could I deal with a vendor that sticks me with their mistakes? It forces me to then in turn stick my buyers with their mistakes, which if the trend continues puts me out of business.
     
  14. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Posts:
    32,062
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +11
    From what I hear Takara's customer service is pretty good with regards to defects and replacements. Problem is, it's really only beneficial to residents of Japan.
     
  15. exclusacon

    exclusacon Expert with the Scopes!

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Posts:
    7,689
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +1
    How would they know that the customer won't switch the one they already have? So basically what they're saying is buy @ your own risk, if it breaks, we can't refund your money?...
     
  16. SydneyY

    SydneyY @syd_tfw Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Posts:
    11,516
    News Credits:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    276
    Likes:
    +74

    Yeah TakaraTomy takes back defects easily. As far as I know of the customer has to ship the toy back though (Jpn residents, please correct me if I'm wrong). Until a few years back you could buy parts, too, but nowadays they simply tell their customers to send the defective toy back.
     
  17. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Posts:
    32,062
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +11
    Isn't that what's on the small slip of paper they pack in with the instructions? I've seen that for as long as I've been importing with no idea what it actually says. There's a phone number on it, is all I know.
     
  18. Grimwing

    Grimwing Scientist Supreme

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Posts:
    4,962
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +3
    V2 rodimus claims to have stronger parts. probably in the legs.

    But we don't really know any of the particulars until it ships to people for review. Its great for people who have not bought it yet.

    For those that have. There are other things to buy this year. TFC devestator, new masterpiece prime, Fansproject C-03.
     
  19. SydneyY

    SydneyY @syd_tfw Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Posts:
    11,516
    News Credits:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    276
    Likes:
    +74
    If I'm thinking of what you are thinking, that's to participate in customer survey and enter a draw for random prize :)  There's no phone # there though, so I might be looking at a wrong piece of paper.
     
  20. Sidecutter

    Sidecutter Evil Dealer Scum TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Posts:
    5,098
    News Credits:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Likes:
    +41
    For us, Takara *has* no policy regarding the toys. Takara's product, when sold outside Japan and nearby areas where they also sell normally, is considered "grey market". It is not illegal to do so in any way, but it is also not an area in which the goods were ever meant to be sold. As a result, Takara does not offer any sort of warranty or support on their products when sold outside that area.

    The only way around this is if your suppliers (And by "your", I am speaking for myself and the other shops, since we use most of the same suppliers) can work with Takara to try and resolve an issue on your behalf.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011

Share This Page