Jerkbots, transform and roll out!

Discussion in 'Transformers Animated Discussion' started by Aluinashryu, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Aluinashryu

    Aluinashryu Decepticon

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    This might be a bit late, but i've been thinking about the situation in Animated. Is it just me, or do the autobots really come off as a bunch of jerks? okay, they have redeeming qualities, but for good guys, they dont exactly have a great record. To list the most obvious moral slip ups, Bumblebee in Nanosec. Purposefully running Nanosec down 'til he got old? yeah. Then theres Optimus in Blast from the Past, ready to let the dinobots be melted down even though Prowl said that they were'nt just machines- they had a spark, like them! then, with Swindle, after they stopped him they were perfectly happy with Fanzones suggestion of stripping him down and selling the spare parts. HUH?! Also, the elite guard gives us an example. Lying- they would rather lie to their own people, and pretend that the rising threats didn't exist. Great. Not to mention the general jerkassery that goes on between them besides. Okay, i may be making too big a fuss about these things, but its hard not to notice.

    Then, on the other side of this, we have the Decepticons. Who... aren't as evil as i thought they would be. So! do we get a really good reason to root for the autobots on account of why the Decepticons started the war?! uhhh... get back to you on that one. What about all of the REALLY EVIL stuff they get up to then?! Megatron has to be one EVIL son of a... "Give me the Allspark and i may spare your miserable autobot lives..." huh? i thought it was kill, take, leave.... then surely!-*Optimus throws Megatron out the hatch*.....so, let me get this straight. Starscream tries to kill Megatron, but fails. Then, Optimus does? mkay. I could list all of the times Megatron has a chance to be really evil, but doesn't.... and, believe it or not, those times are many. How am i supposed to hate a cartoon villain who doesnt really get up to that much villainy? Sure enough, Megatron threatens, destroys and plots a lot, but otherwise... i actually admire him. Look at it this way. He has been searching for the Allspark for AGES, never even thinking of giving up. After all the times he comes close to destruction, he still fights on... determined? dedicated? unstoppable? hells yeah. Despite being evil and all, arent these traits supposed to be a good thing? THAT is the kind of guy i would want as my freedom fighting leader.... mostly. and, about that 'fighting autobot tyranny' aspect.... well, now i'm even more confused.

    Well, anyway, im left puzzled on exactly what i should think. Now that the next season is near, I hope that it will clear stuff up for me... the back story on the war and its cause, especially. If they carry on with the 'Decepticons dont need development, they just evil and have to be defeated by 'heroic' autobots' routine, i might just scream in rage. Unless, of course, the Decepticons get up to some really evil crap, the autobots become more likeable, and the defeat of the Decepticons is justified. Maybe i'm thinking into things too much. Dont get me wrong, i love Transformers Animated, but i'm just kind of torn, regarding the good vs evil bit. What do you think?
     
  2. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

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    Season 3 is directed by M. Night Shyamalan, and for his plot-twist, it turns out the Decepticons were the good guys all along!
     
  3. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    In all the materials, it's stated the Megatron sees himself as a freedom fighter, trying to reclaim his home planet for his own kind.

    I like the slight moral gray area sometimes in a show, and I like this culturally refined Megatron.
     
  4. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I don't think wanting to melt down seemingly mindless and clearly destructive robots a jerk move. How could he have known they had sparks? They were built on Earth!

    They're not jerks, just not perfect. Thread title is epic fail. The whole point of these characters is so that it isn't entirely clear who's good or bad. Megatron doesn't even consider himself truely evil, (though he is) and the Elite Guard is very questionable. (though that's supposed to happen) Starscream is the only one who's totally a jerkface and loves it, in close second is Sentinel prime who's just a douche, but not evil. It's not like G1 where everyone runs around shouting "I am good!" or "I am evil!" As far as Swindle is concerned, serves him right, even though we know it doesn't happen. (since the time peice effects are temporary and all)

    Also, BB on Nanosec. I kinda agree. BB is a little turd sometimes. (but that's why I like him) From a viewers standpoint, Optimus' team are obviously the good guys, and Megatron wants to enslave their planet. The main 5 good guys are plenty likeable. You're making a gigantic fuss over nothing.
     
  5. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I agree. Fallible Autobots with actual personalities? Say it ain't so!
     
  6. Takara_destron

    Takara_destron Mainly lurking these days

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  7. hupla

    hupla Well-Known Member

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    So its just like seasons 1 and 2?
     
  8. night-skyward

    night-skyward Collects animated, mainly

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    I think it makes megatrons fight more believable really. If the autobots where truly perfect images of good and everything thats right then everybody would just think megatron is a mad man saying that they took his planet etc. Personally i don't think this megatron is mad.
     
  9. Longhaul53

    Longhaul53 Guest

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    I think that you are on the verge of understanding the entire point of the cartoon... the story basically establishes that Good and Evil are not as clear as black and white. Think about the real world - history is written by the people that win wars, who then fashion themselves as Heroes who have defeated tyranny... but it is very rare that the losing side view themselves as EVIL??? In the comic/movie "The Watchmen" (one of my alltime favorites) The villain of the story actually wants world peace and has a near perfect plan to achieve it. Good and Evil are dependent on your point of view, entirely... That is exactly what this story establishes. The days of having boyscout heroes and cackling villains are over... the separation between being a hero and a villain is now a big, grey, fuzzy line.

    From a psychological view - The writers of the story are very much aware of the importance of character motivation in story telling, needing a clear reason for characters being the way they are. In animated, Megatron has a clear motivation and he's 'rising up' against the tyranny/opression of the Autobots. Now you have a villain you can sympathize with/understand, and he's written that way to get you to take an interest in what he's all about... Likewise, the Elite Guard lying/hiding the truth from the public is a simple statement about trusting those who lead you... Are they Corrupt? Are they Liars? Do they do what they do for the greater good? These are exactly the questions you should be asking yourself.

    At the end of the day, this was a very well written series with less than perfect heroes and less than dishonorable villains. It's not earth shattering, but it is the basis of good storytelling and character development. I hope this is the level of writing we can expect from future TF endeavors (bay movies aside)...
     
  10. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    As a Decepticon fan, and a guy who's never agreed with interpreting them as evil for the sake of being evil, I'm overjoyed that Marty Isenberg and crew have decided to portray them in this fashion.

    Life and its aspects is seldom demarcated in black and white; they are more often colored in shades of gray.
     
  11. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

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    It's a psychological effect that, whenever someone who is ALWAYS nice one time freaks out, people will think of him as a bad person, and when someone who is ALWAYS evil suddenly does something good, people will see him as a good person ( 'you know, he's not so bad after all').

    This is very tricky and even somewhat unfair, because it means the nice guy will easily be torn off their pedestals when they make a minor mistake, while bad guys manage to become liked. Pretty much the same is going on with the Autobots/Decepticons in Animated: The Elite Guard is a division of the Autobot that works much like most Earth superpowers: ready to take impopular actions for the good cause. Does this make them evil? Definitely not, but because you see them as good, and they do less-good stuff, they devalue themselves.

    The Decepticons on the other hand, are 'evil'. Megatron, as much as he would like to call himself a freedom fighter, is out there to seize control of Cybertron and treat the Autobots civilians much the same as the Autobots treat Decepticon criminals, or worse. He believes he is just though, but mind that being 'just' has nothing to do with being good or evil. It's what he believes is his right (which clearly, it is not).

    Of course, there are also Decepticons that are much less evil or destructive (like Blackarachnia), which also devalues them as villains.

    In the end, it allows for much deeper storytelling. Yay!
     
  12. Vexza

    Vexza Nerdicon

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    I noticed this. I sort of like it, as it doesn't have that corny 'pure evil vs. pure good' stuff that most kiddy shows have. It helps makes Animated great. But at the end of the day, the Autobots at least KNOW what's right, despite all of their flaws and slip-ups.

    Though I still think Ultra Magnus calling the AeroTwins 'expendable' was cold, despite the reasoning I can see behind it. It's still cold.
     
  13. chapsy

    chapsy Resident Brony

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    interesting thread. had a lot of fun reading the viewpoints on this.
    really, I think longhaul hit it right on the nose.
    good and evil really isn't black and white anymore, and quite frankly, I love it that way. :) 
     
  14. brr-icy

    brr-icy G1 Collector

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    i think this is hands-down the best thread i have read in the animated forum in a long time, positivity! yay! and i definately like the spin on the good vs evil in the show
     
  15. Ravage1976

    Ravage1976 Well-Known Member

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    This undermines your own argument Decepticons Criminals what makes them criminals while the Autobots would be civilians you can turn it on its head from a Decepticon point of view the criminals you speak of are just Decepticon civilians while the Autobots you speak of would likely be criminals in a Decepticon regime.

    The whole problem with the concepts of good and evil is that it's entirely dependant on your point of view this is what frustrates me about people we choose what we see as good and evil there are no acts that are evil by virtue only by perspective. Many will argue that certain acts are intrinisically evil but this is simply that they are incapable of looking at such acts from the nessacary perspective to view them as not being evil. Is murder evil? Yes then how come the fact we farm animals for the express purpose of killing them to eat isnt, or that in certain countries its acceptable for a society to committ murder via the death sentance just not an individual? Or the classic one its ok for me to be a mass murderer for my country but I kill someone for myself and I should be punished its all ethical gymnastics....
     
  16. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn Well-Known Member

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    /thread
     
  17. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    One of my favourite aspects in the series was how they handled the constructicons. They're not bad guys. They're just ordinary working joes who want to have a good time. Between all the propaganda, they just can't make sense of it. In the end they go with the bots who treat them better.
     
  18. Vexza

    Vexza Nerdicon

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    Which happens to be the Decepticons. Ironic, no?
     
  19. chapsy

    chapsy Resident Brony

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    I understand your complaint...and I hate to be a grammar nazi but...please dude, use some punctuation. Your post actually made my head hurt lol.
     
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No, the 'Cons have the better oil. What you basically just said is the Autobots are the bad guys because their oil isn't as good.
     

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