Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by AkatsukiFan, Jul 28, 2010.
would you consider the japanese transformers series (headmasters, zone, ect.) to be an anime
If you define anime as a show made for Japanese audience in the style of popular manga (both in terms of story set up and artistic style) and commissioned and made in Japan* then I'd say its an anime
*when I say made I mean keyed in Japan then outsourced typically
Then again, I'm a person who refers to both Japanese and Western animation as 'cartoons'.
Yes the japanese stuff is anime to me.
Headmasters, Zone, Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, Car Robots (R.I.D.), Micron Legends (Armada), Superlink (Energon) and Galaxy Force (Cybertron) = All anime
Why wouldn't they be? Anime is nothing but a short-hand term for animation. We use cartoon for the exact same meaning.
In terms of style and design, it certainly fits within the style and design of Anime at the time. Even further following the trend of the late-80's with Victory and Zone. But all Anime went that same route, you started with shows like MSGundam and The Mysterious Cities of Gold and the genre slowly changed it's style as you got towards the 90's.
But I mean, every form of visual media did the exact same thing- comic books, American-produced cartoons. They all went and formed more of an identity. Not to mention that all those 80's shows we grew up on were produced in Japan and Korea.
Is it Anime? Certainly. No less Anime than Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers or Transformers 2010 were.
I just call it all cartoons, animation etc.
I've found myself starting to do this too. Just a few years ago I would have concidered it heresy. In my love of animation I hated it's moniker of cartoon... because it always seemed to belittle it.
I think it was term 80's Cartoons that started to change my thinking on the subject. For some reason it didn't bother me like it had before. It didn't feel insulting. So now I'm okay with calling animation a cartoon.... even with anime from time to time.
Yeah, i mean anime is japanese animation. If you're talking about the animation style that would typically be called "anime" these days, then i find that really starts with Masterforce.
Ah there is layers to this.....
Anime is animation made in Japan with the purpose of the japanese audience (unlike some other animations made in Japan that are for America (see Jem) )
So TF wise: Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Beast Wars 2nd (and it's movie), Beast Wars Neo, Car Robots, Micron Legend, Super Link and Galaxy Force are all anime.
What also falls into that in an obscure but valid way is Scramble City and the Robotmasters OVA specials.
Just look for sweat drops, people yelling attacks before they do them and a lot of stock footage and more or less your good to go.
Yes, I consider the Japanese exclusive TF series to be anime.
Because at one point during Victory, as Star Saber is about to cut somebody somethin' fierce, he says that his sword cannot forgive evil.
I'll repeat that.
Star Saber declares to an enemy that his sword cannot forgive evil.
Such are the shenanigans you find in anime.
Yes, because the word "anime" is nothing more than another word for "animation" in Japan, just like how we use cartoon.
Sorry, I don't buy that at all. MSGundam, Macross (as Robotech), and The Mysterious Cities of Gold were ALL played in America within a few years of their original Japanese broadcast. And all three have had just as much of an American following.
I don't see what the audience has to do with how or where the show was produced, or what name you give it. That'd be like not calling Count Duckula and Danger Mouse "cartoons" because they were made for a British audience. No, we can't call them 'cartoons' because that's an American word. We have to call them 'funnies' now. Yeah, funnies.
Cartoon = Anime. Manga = Comic. Get over the labels.
Yes, they most certainly are.
I feel like it is worth noting that Japanese generally refer to western cartoons as "anime" as well; just goes to further show that "anime" really is just short for "animation".
Anime is animation made and produced in asian countries, for those countries. So yes, those 3 are anime, whereas the first american seasons, aren't.
It's idiotic to use foreign words to describe domestic goods unless you're from that area where the language barrier is(the whole point we domesticly use the term to begin with in english to denote their area). If you're from that area, the language barrier is different, so of course you'd use your own word for it. Just as we use animation to denote all things animated in the english language. The labels denote origin and intended audience. Not style, etc. Originally when the anime boom started, that's why they used the labels, that's why the labels should stay. This is why we use a foreign word for that area's animation. Just as they use their own word to describe all animation in their own language.
There's no such thing as an 'american manga'. It's a graphic novel or a comic, why complicate the language more than it needs to be, these words are not synonomous. You can be inspired by, but unless you fit the criteria, you aren't a manga-ka, or making an anime.
Cartoon means satirical in nature, whether in print or in animation.
Anime can be a cartoon and still be anime, so long as it's satirical in nature. All is animation, that's just a global term. The region language words themselves are used to denote just that, the region of origin.
Just because people choose to throw the words around liberally, and I'll admit I've done it before too, doesn't mean they are being used correctly.
The origins of the word Anime in japan come from France(which stems from the french japan goods trading long before disney inspired Tezuka the godfather of anime). Not the word animation. That's just an urban myth that crops up because it's easy to see them match in pronunciation. That doesn't mean it's correct either.
Mobile Suit Gundam's original japanese broadcast was in 1979. The only Gundam series we got in a timely manner were 00 and Seed. Wing was five years late, G was six, close to seven years late. Turn A is going to be about 12 years late.
and Macross and Gundam's following in amerca cannot even slightly be compared to japan.
yeah gundam in Japan is like their Star Wars... I mean they actually justified making a 1/1 scale gundam lets see some one try to do that any place else
Yeah, if it's all the same to you I'm gonna keep refering to US/Canadian/British/whatever animation and illustration as Cartoons and comics while refering to Japanese animation and illustration as anime and manga.
Just because people see it that way doesn't mean everyone has to. You want to lump all of it under the label of cartoons or comics then fine, no one's telling you not to. Just don't say that people are just labeling the japanese equivalants as such.
It's also not the proper terminology to do it as he says. Sure some see it that way, but that doesn't make it the proper usage.
By definition, these things are as I stated above. By liberal usage, they are whatever people use them as.
By definition though it's as stated in english. (Language barriers aside, other nations have their own 'word' for animation, so it varies to that degree per country you are in, unless english is the national language.)
Anime = Animation made and produced in asiatic regions for them as their intended audience.
Animation = All things animated by any means, or any region.
Cartoon = Of a satirical nature whether in print or animation for any region.
CGI = Polygonal animation rendered from Computers, doesn't denote region of origin. This includes cellshading, as it's still polygonal, just with brighter colors, and thicker black borders.
Hand Drawn/Digitally Drawn = Animation that either has it's frames hand drawn and painted per cell, or uses digital tablets to do the drawing for crisper lines, but even digitally it still uses layers, which are pretty much the same as cells just in a digital manner. Again doesn't denote region, origin, or intended audience.
Manga = Comics made by asiatic regions, for those regions. Usually found in magazines, or collected volume graphic novel books.
Graphic Novel = A book of collected illustrations that tell a story. No matter the region or creator.
Trade Paperback = a collected volume of comic book issues that were previously released seperately. Again, no region specifics or origin.
Mind you, this is just the proper usage of the terms. So yes using them for anything else isn't the proper usage, but people still get what you generally mean even though you aren't using the terminology correctly for their accurate definitions.
This is why something like the dini-verse Batman Animated series, is called just that, an animated series. Whereas something like Batman the brave and the bold, is a cartoon. One is serious, the other is satirical. Both are animation, neither are Anime. This is also why something like Avatar the Last airbender is not anime. It was produced in america/canada with the intended audience being america/canada. It was inspired by anime, and other source material, but that doesn't make it, itself an anime, inspite of all the asiatic influences in the story. That just makes it a well made show period due to the basis they use, and detail oriented creation it has to justify every choice, and create a vibrant living cohesive world.
Anime itself encompasses all styles and forays they may use. Which can vary greatly from series to series, even creator to creator. Which is why anime itself doesn't encompass a single style. There's too much variety between them from things like one piece, astroboy, sailor moon, revolutionary girl utena, and say the melancholy of haruhi suzumiya. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Just as anything new may not confine itself to any one set of structure art style or choices. Anything made in asiatic regions for asiatic regions is anime, whether it looks like 'anime' or not. Style conventions aren't what denote this, as all art period, uses a wide array of stylistic choices, fluidity, and other artistic conventions its creator may take. Some things may be more prevalent in certain areas, but that doesn't mean they were the source of it to begin with.
For example, the big eyes convention that anime tends to use, evolved from Mickey Mouse, and Betty Boop. One being an american stylistic choice, the either being a more france chosen stylistic choice, both predate what many consider the modern anime stylistic choice, though not all anime uses this stylistic choice either.
This is also why something like the modern appleseed is a CGI feature, but also an anime. It was created within the definition of anime and CGI, even though it's not a hand drawn or digitally drawn feature. It's also still animation, even though it's computer animation.
Remember, Animation itself is just a medium to convey a story. It doesn't automaticly mean it's childish or adult. Even anime is different based on it's target demographic. Just as american animation varies based on this.
The original looney tunes for example, were never meant to be child fare. They were created just to be funny, and the creators did what they thought is funny to them and they liked. It was never directly intended for children, it just became seen as that over time from being so comedic and satirical in nature while being animation. This led to the common misconception that all things animated are for children, which was never the original intent behind this medium. The satirical nature to these shorts, is what also denotes them as Cartoons.
Things co-produced by japan and america can be anime, such is the case for things like the second season of Big O, the AEC trilogy, among others. Though in AEC's case, Hasbro's production side was minimal besides co-funding them, which is why the story per series barely lines up from energon to cybertron, and why it was dubbed to such disastrious results in all 3. Same thing to RiD as it was entirely produced in japan with the intended audience being japan, we just received the dub later as filler, which then lead to the AEC trilogy after Hasbro discovered how much easier it could be on them to save money this way. Granted it led to less story-centric and compelling media later till the series started being produced on the american side of things again.
RiD is also an interesting note, as it's both anime, and a cartoon. It's satirical in nature, and is still anime as it was produced and created in asiatic regions for them as their intended audience.
Sure but ask some one from Japan what the Flinstones is.... and they will tell you Anime. There is no proper terminology, only popular... it's all very subjective. If you ask me, we have misused the Japanese term Anime in our reperposing it to mean animation from japan. In my time as a fan it started out as Japanimation, then Japanime, to just Anime. Who's to say what will come next.
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