What can I add? Not much except to say that hardcore James Bond fans objected quite vocally (and nastily) when Daniel Craig was cast in the role - The character design was 'changed too much', if you will, by casting a blonde "non-pretty boy".

What happens? The film comes out and becomes the most financially successful (and best, in my opinion) Bond film ever. It didn't conform to what constitued "proper" Bond in the eyes of the fans and they expected failure - The opposite proved to be true. CASINO ROYALE re-invigourted the franchise and took it in an unexected direction.

Why can't the TF movie do the same? It's taking the same risks, I agree, but the precedent is there for those risks to pay off.

 

He's not a pretty boy?!?!

With muscles like that I'd say he's more of a pretty boy then Moore, Connery and Brosnon ever were

 

Well Sean Connery in his HayDay was way more pwntacular....Sean FTW  

 

My sister fancies Daniel Craig!
Anyway, that's public perceptions for you and why I stuck it in "quotes" - I distinctly recall seeing Bond forums saying Craig was "too ugly" for the role soon after he was cast. Those people seem to have gone awfully quiet in the wake of the film's success and hopefully TRANSFORMERS can do something similar once (if) the detractors actually see it.

 

No, no. See, "Agenda" was not the first G1 reference. That occurs in a flashback in the third episode of the first season. We see Cybertron and Starscream, and that fills us in on where Beast Wars fits in the continuity. There were numerous other references including an appearance by "Unicron" and Starscream in season one. Agenda was the end of the second season, and where the G1 continuity actually became the plot by forcing the Maximals to guard the Ark...which is, IMO, what killed it for the main demographic (kids) and got it taken away from us too early, forcing the storyline to become rushed and sub-par.

As one of the ones who liked Beast Wars even before the G1 aspects were added in, that sucked for me.

Fans, on the whole, should not be listened to. Fandoms ruin things by demanding an adherence to an old way of doing things, even though there aren't enough fans to financially support that way of doing things. But then they get all angry when a company like Hasbro wants to make money.

Oh, c'mon. Of course I understand the difference between TV and films with regard to a general perception of importance, I was asking why it mattered to you.

As a True Transformer fan, you're stuck with the designs for a year or two whether they're on TV or film. So, what I'm hearing is, you'd be okay with the movie designs if they were part of a tiny cartoon series that you, me, and the rest of us geeks would enjoy alongside some children on Saturday Morning...but if the same designs are in a movie that's shared with the general audience for which those designs were designed to appeal, you hate 'em.

 

That right there's the game breaker. We have to understand that the G1 fanbase is a cult following, and our acceptance doesn't make a dent in the overall scheme of things. Transformers is the type of concept that can be done a hundred different ways, but what will always be a constant is what will make them cool at the point of revision. And I promise they won't have us 20-somethings in mind when they start designnig Prime 2009. We can only take solace in the fact that he'll be red and blue, transforming into some kind of truck. Megatron will hate him and Starscream will be a whiny backstabber. Autobots (or otherwise) will be good, Decepticons (or otherwise) will be bad. Humans are caught in the middle.

Those themes are what Transformers is, not G1. We shouldn't be so selfish.

 

<~~If I may speak.

The approach of the movie, to make it more realistic in a scientific sense, whatever that means, is a good improvement. I think those of us whom revel in the G1 era accept the cartoon as it was: Humanoid robots from outerspace that "Transform". But I was thinking that the idea of the Transformers not speaking human language right off the bat was something to be considered positive. I thought about this after watching Armada and the Mini-Cons in the cartoon serise (not in comic books) didn't speak but their mechanical whatever. I don't know what the Transformers will be made to speak in (as I read in another board that Megatron mocks Prime for speaking flesh language). But if they really were alien robots from another planet, wouldn't something like a mechanical language or ultra high radio frequency be what they use as communications? But then again, I don't know. It's just a movie, made up, it can be whatever the writers and producers would imagine it being, to the dismay of many.

After following the story through Armada then Energon, then going back to the much revered G1 I accept whatever change comes to Transformers. The change is what makes it so fun. It's only limited by the imagination.

And if the movie sucks, big deal. I'll buy it anyway, lock it away, and pretend I never heard of it. It's freakin' Transformers gone live! Maybe now it won't be corney like the more recent cartoon series were!

Note: Not dissing anyone, just saying something Optimistic. HMMM....

 

This movie actually does suck because Trailbreaker is not in it...but I have a solution. They should make a movie called Trailbreaker, starring Bruce Campbell as Trailbreaker, and make it all about Trailbreaker fighting round the world. It will be the highest grossing movie ever. ever.

Long live Trailbreaker.

 

I think it would have been REALLY funny to see the fandom reactionif they would have used Wheelie in the movie, either alongside, or instead of Bumblebee.

But like the OP says, and people seem to be missing:

This is only a movie.

 

Wheelie = Jar Jar

 

Now that would be something to see!  

 

Yes, yes, YES!!! I agree 100%. But if the movie does suck (i've only read a portion of the script), i'll personally hunt down Bay and Co and (hand gestures and choking sounds......)



 

 

I didn't say it was the first. It was the first most significant, though. Surely you understood that I was talking about the involvement of G1 in the Agenda regarding the general BW arc.

When you say the G1 references are the cause of BW cancellation, you're excluding the fans from the perspective. It might have not been profitable given the target audience, but [the cancellation] was not what many fans - who months earlier were chanting Trukk not Munky - wanted. It was the exact reason why fans changed their perspective. And we were talking about the fans - as how they accepted Munky not Trukk - right?

As one of the ones who shrugged at Beast Wars before the G1 aspects were added in, that rocked for me.   It's good to know that you were not part of the Trukk not Munky bandwagon. I wasn't either, but it was a hell of a bigass bandwagon with people comparing that new series with G1. Of course I also felt BW was rushed in the end. But if I was to take the G1 subplot away from BW in order to have another 2 seasons, I wouldn't. For me, the G1 influence boosted the overall characterization, especially regarding Optimus Primal and Megatron. As it is. BW has a very solid arc, with great sense of closure. Even considering the "Wait, we forgot!!!" video where they return Megs' spark.

I see your point, but I disagree in principle. Although dismissed by default, a fan input is exactly what many recent works are lacking of. This vision of any fandom as a big mass of fanboys is too generic, stereotyped and self-destructive, considering that the fans themselves are the ones who sustain such view. It's a whole lot of "We're not worthy" that should be trimmed down at some point. The fanboy mass will never contribute, but isolated fans can and do sometimes give totally different visions to tried-and-true comcepts, and that should be appreciated for what it is.

YIKES!  

Your choice of words already made the judgement. Tiny, geeks, Saturday Morning versus designs, appeal and hate. Hmmm, guess I don't have to answer.  

Let me put it in other words. I'd be okay if the movie designs were used in a short spam series, like Beast Machines... but for a movie that's shared with worldwide audience with a large range of potential appeal and nostalgia, I'd say they're too out in the experimental territory.

 

Well......



guess the world isnt over

 

This is how I viewed and still somewhat view the movie. Wile the designs have grown on my considerably, to a point now were I actually quite like them, I agree that I still think they went a tad to experimental in the revamp.

While the concept of making the Transformers more "alien" is not necessarily a bad idea I think because they have deviated a little far from the more classic "G1" designs (and story to a degree) can perhaps turn some people off to it, and I'm not talking just the fanboys. I can see a lot of people who arnt fans but regular movie goers who are/were familiar however vaguely with Transformers in general, looking at them and the movie and thinking something like "these arnt the Transformers I remember". And I agree that this kind of experimentation would have perhaps been better suited as TF series like Beast Machines as you suggested (though I take offense at that spam comment  ).

 

Oh no. In the script wasn't it grease Bumblebee spewed??? Damn it! You jinxed it!
lol

 

No, I'm not removing the fans from my perspective...I'm flat out blaming them.   When the G1 aspect of the Beast Wars became the overriding plot point, the fans were made happy, but the demographic that actually supported the franchise, kids, went away. And since fans are not numerous enough in number to viably support a TV show, the series was canceled.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the point of the show's quality in that third season, but there is no denying that the Trukk bandwagon wasn't bigass enough to support the series without the kid demographic.

Okay, I still don't get it. And I swear, I'm not trying to troll or flamebait, I just honestly am not getting your point. The only difference I can see between these designs being in a TV series or in a major motion picture is the amount of people who get to see them.

Why would you suddenly be okay with the designs just because they're being exposed to a smaller audience? What does that give you, personally, that makes them, in your opinion, good designs all of a sudden?