I normally don't post much, just every now and then. Normally in the Radicons section. But I was so disappointed with this movie, that I felt I had to say something above the tired hater or fanboy threads.

I am currently in the process of writing and scripting 3 movies, a world book, 3 novels, doing the CG designs of the characters in those movies. The thing I want is for my movie to look good, have incredible depth, deep characterization, enjoyable for 1.5 to 2 hours. Have the books and films exist together and separate from each other. So i'm taking a 7 year approach, currently on year 3.

I am assuming that some thought went into the Transformers series, and that they had a rough outline of the movie with number 1, and if number 1 did well, they could expand upon it.

With the history and lore of the Transformers, especially with the great comics out there, they had MUCH to pull from.

I watch a lot of Sci-Fi and have seen some great and some terrible. Some of the better movies being the popcorn B-movies from the 50's-60's. With today's technology and some great reference material. WHY is it so hard to write a movie about giant cybernetic lifeforms, that is both awesome, and serious, yet fun?

They are making a second planet of the apes, about talking monkeys taking over the world. It will be deep, thought provoking, and exciting. I watched an animated short story a boy with a pumpkin mask on his head, who said NOTHING in the 15 minute movie, but had more plot and character development than this did. Why is the Hobbit such a thrill ride, and have you talking about it being deep and engrossing for years? How to train your Dragon 1 and two were both amazing, for not only a kids film, but for consistency, and engrossing plot, while being great silly fun.
UP a movie about a grumpy guy, a dog, and a nutty boy scout in a flying house, had me in tears for like a minute.

The original writers of the Transformers film, went on to write Prime, and The Star Trek Films, Now you see me, Enders Game (Good movie, cruddy creator), People like Us, Watchmen...
Kruger is a TERRIBLE writer. Why are peopel defending the nonsense?

The Movie verse is so amazing. The Concepts, the mythology, the add on comics, I mean the movie-verse has A Lot going on for it outside of idiotic jokes, dumb romance cliches, dumb parent/child cliches etc.

Mark Wahlberg was awesome, Tucci..awesome, Kelsey..awesome, altwell?...awesome. greater focus on the bots..awesome.
They could have left out so much of the daughter and her boyfriend... the annoying friend.. etc.

I mean I can write a 3 movie treatment in a day that would tie in all the movies, and make sense. Why can't kruger?

Transformers can be fun, and it can be Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes legendary..
So why must we settle?

 

THANK YOU! I could not agree with you more.  

 

This x1,000. I seriously don't understand why people defend him, and hate on Orci and Kurtzman. Sure he is a Transformers fan (as some claim), but he can't write a good script   .

 

it was

 

I tremendously respect what you're doing. Instead of talking trash about the movies , you've decided to contribute your own vision. Far better to make something better than complain.

With that said, you have to first be ready to accept that you may put all your passion into this project... which people may find boring, contrived, clichéd and weak. I don't imagine Bay doesn't put as much heart and hustle into his films as you will yours.

In addition, Transformers is not Lord of the Rings or Planet of the Apes, both literary classics before modern film. Transformers first comics were average at best, cartoon became a pop phenomenon & the rest is history.

The Dark Knight phenomenon has sent people crazy with the ideal things need to be better than their origins. Transformers, with a Lord of the Rings style story, would not be Transformers. The height of TF fiction has been Beast Wars... which featured Rhinox farting as an attack.

Maybe in another decade, once Last Stand of the Wreckers, and recent solid Graphic novels have sunk into the fiction, this is realistic. People disappointed themselves thinking they would get more, instead Bay gave us a photo real version of what we always got. It was never about the stories, it was always about showcasing the nobility of Optimus Prime. AOE does it better than the first trilogy. Not perfect, but I left feeling like Optimus was a noble warrior of kick ass proportions. Lockdown being such a problem, as well as the evil humans aspect helped it for me, as well as the Autobots continually focused on them.

The silent movie you talked about has the advantage of using your imagination to interpret the characters feelings. It gives you the freedom to internally create the story, much like playing with Transformers toys.

I thought Prime was overwritten and boring. Star Trek films were solid. But lauding Orci and Kurtzman's writing while knocking Kruger is... an interesting style choice.

Krueger writes BAD 80s movies style films. Which perfectly fits an updated cheesy 80s cartoon. He even gave us G1 Prime! Films like Up, and Your Dragon, imagine a shot for shot remake of those films and live action. A ton of the magic of those films would be lost on them being live action, and critics will probably talk about how contrived they were. Can you seriously imagine a live action version of the movie Up doing as well or being as enthralling as the actual cartoon version?

In short, why does transformers need to be anything more than it ever was? I like the idea that I could escape to my 5 year old self for two and a half hours and just cheer for big robots beating the hell out of each other. I don't need a complex enthralling in deep storyline to enjoy that aspect of a franchise I've loved since I was a child.

 

Bay = major summer movie blockbusters which = Major $ for studios and product placement & associated merchandise.

Brainless fun is his style.

How many Batman movies did we get before Nolan's trilogy?

This will not be the last live action interpretation of the Transformers brand...it just happened to be a bad first one for your viewpoint as it pertains to this thread.

 

Yeah that's a good point. We look at things from a fan standpoint. Bay is not Kevin Feige, where he can demand (or even care) about cartoon accuracy being able to sell.

Even Thor & Iron Man , along with the Dark Knight, added weak romance aspects. They are to make female viewers have something to relate to or engage with during an otherwise testosterone fueled trip. Blockbusters tend to have this, while passion projects don't need to focus on it as such. Perhaps the biggest problem is that the movie probably was not pitched as a drama, it was probably pitched as a blockbuster action franchise... and ticket sales suggest it has been.

Hopefully Bay's success will lead to someone who gives us that definitive movie. Before Nolan, there was Burton.

 

i absolutely and completely agree with you.

i enjoyed this movie IMMENSELY.

and no, i didn't have to "check my brain at the door".. i enjoyed feeling the emotions of ratchets death.. of prime feeling defeated.. of prime freeing the dinobots.. of galvatron gaining sentience..

this movie, in my opinion, was clearly used to set up an overarching story by introducing the creators.. by giving galvatron a mind that isn't controllable.. and by leaving us with questions.. questions that bay said wouldn't be answered in the movie.

it's just REALLY difficult for me to understand how someone couldn't enjoy this movie. .. i mean, it had an interesting plot.. brand new characters.. new relationships.. action.. dinobots.. prime in a situation that we had NEVER seen him in before.. a bounty hunter.. human made transformers.. i just don't understand how someone could dislike any of that.

when i go see a transformers movie, i'm not expecting citizen kane.. i'm expecting to have a good time.. which is exactly what i had.

the dark knight trilogy was nice and all.. but i think it's WAY easier making a batman movie than it is making a transformers movie. i mean.. the transformers are all CG.. batman isn't.

anyways, in my opinion, AOE took a MAJOR step forward and was WAY better than any of the other three movies we've seen thus far. i mean, we had a far greater amount of robot to robot dialogue and there's really no doubt about the different autobots personalities. in the first movie we really didn't get to know any of the transformers besides prime.. in rotf i couldn't really tell you anything about arcee.. or sideswipe (other than him being self obsessed).. and in dotm topspin didn't have a single line in the movie.. however, in AOE we got a lot of characterization with hound, drift, and crosshairs.. we got to see their interaction with each other and whatnot.

plus, like i said, it looks like they've actually thought beyond this movie which is nice. they didn't end this film with needing to create an entirely new story for the next one.. they ended this film like a season finally.. and i LOVE that.. i can't wait to see what happens next.

oh well, you can't please everyone.. i'm still grateful for michael bay for resurrecting this franchise and making it as big as it is.. you don't have a 97 million dollar opening weekend with a fourth installment by accident.

at least transformers didn't end up like GI joe. (oh, and i've tried watching the lord of the rings movies.. and they were just so utterly boring that they couldn't hold my interest, so i'm glad transformers is nothing like those movies)

 

You guys really do not understand the writing process of a film like this... At all.

Okay, so first, you have Hasbro who probably requires certain elements to be in the film, like new designs for old Transformers, new Transformers, and other things that enable them to sell more merchandise.

Then you have Michael Bay, who admittedly conceptualizes action scenes before anything, and the stories are written around these action set-pieces.

Then you have to wrap all of these together into something resembling a cohesive narrative.

Definitely not easy to do. Of course, it's not supposed to be easy. I wonder, though, whether Kruger actually cares about building a mythology that makes sense or if he just does enough to get his paycheck. He's a self-admitted Transformers fan, and it shows in these movies how they draw from other continuities, but maybe he's not too great at linking everything together. Or maybe he doesn't care to.

 

There's some really good writing in the Transformers comics and the cartoons. That's why it can be disappointing and baffling that the writing in the movies is so bad (though I understand that AOE is considered to be an improvement).

If you're here for spectacle, the movies might be your perfect cup of tea, but if you care about the story and the characters, you're probably going to get annoyed. There's also a lot of wasted potential. Characters with a rich history are misused or reduced to anonymous bit parts and then abruptly killed off. Others turn up out of nowhere and then just as suddenly disappear without explanation.

It is amazing when you think how easy it would be to add a bit of dialogue here and there for the story to make a bit more sense. But apparently that's not a priority.

 

in a perfect world? yea. but we're never going to get that.

AOE is the best we're going to get. get used to it. or don't watch it.

 

Which of the great TF comics out there are not brainless fun? I've enjoyed TF comics from all eras, but I've yet to see a single one that exceeds that.