Is there something to be said that Hasbro and their affiliates are now KOing KO toys?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Alucard77, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    I think it is funny and kinda sad that Hasbro and TFCC is now KOing the KO companies.

    I mean, look at TFCC breakdown for instance. Straight KO rip, which is a straight rip from a Radicon. Sure you can say, but it has to be that mold. But why? You telling me there was no other figure they could have used to create Breakdown. That, the only mold that made sense for him was that one? Really? Come now.

    Also, look at the new Seeker mold. True it is their old mold with some tweaks, but really? It's a KO of the iGear seekers, who once again KOed a radicon. Well, I guess you could argue TT had the design first, technically. But TT is going through all the trouble to redesign Optimus at the proper scale, and you telling me the seekers are forgotten about in terms of proper scale. Or maybe they are proper scale and I am missing something. But to my eye (Getting MP TC tomorrow) it looks like a KO of the the KO.

    So is there something to be said here. What does it say about Hasbro/TT/TFCC that they need to copy vs. innovate? Maybe I am reading too much into it.
     
  2. Shatterpoint

    Shatterpoint Neato

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    You're reading too much into it.
     
  3. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I don't think they really care what KO companies or customizers have done in the past, frankly.
     
  4. Omega_Sentinel

    Omega_Sentinel Well-Known Member

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    I wish someone would KO Hasbro's KO of a KO'd KO.
     
  5. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    IP and designs belong to hasbro so they can't actually KO them?

    I think I get what your saying though but with the seeker hasbro first did them like that and then let some named designer mess with it and it went badly, they have basically back track but I do think I Gear were a factor.

    TFCC breakdown is more of a stretch, they had already done G2 breakdown from that tooling, that tooling had basically been used in the comics for him, it all goes way back, honestly if they had used another tooling there would have been massive outcry against it.

    Honestly I think you are reading to much into this.
     
  6. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    I was just trying to see if 3rd Parties started moving the needle with Has/Tak.
     
  7. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    how can they KO the seeker design. Igear made next to no changes? Also V2 seekers are based off an early design before the Macross guy joined in so really the design pre-dates Igear.

    edit: added photo
    [​IMG]

    thats an early MP3 proto notice the lack of hip kibble and the connectors for the null rays the V2 design seems to make a few more changes like the face and some other details but clearly Takara did the leg work before I Gear even KO'd them the first time
     
  8. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Okay, you want a reason why they used the Lambo mold for Breakdown? It MIGHT have had something to do with the fact they had the retooled molds lying around for the G2 Breakdown version of the mold back from Botcon 2010, and to get more out of their investment they're just doing the G1 version since the head design didn't change during generations. Why bother spending a lot of money on retooled heads when the work is already done for virtually the EXACT same character?

    As for the Seeker mold, most of those changes were essentially no-brainer alterations that shouldn't have needed to be done in the first place. AFAIK, the whole reason the original Seeker mold has the hip kibble is because they're supposed to be reminicent of Samurai Scabbards, due to the mainline Starscream of the time (Armada) being a swordsbot and having some kind of honor code he held.
     
  9. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    I think they are forcing them to try and rase the bar, although how well hasbro are doing that is your own call not mine.
     
  10. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    To be honest I completely forgot about the G2 Breakdown they did.

    As for the new seeker mold. Is the transformation the same as the iGear one?
     
  11. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    whut? the changes were made when the guy who is behind the Macross jets joined the team (see earlier post I made) the guy added them as a call back to his other designs not part of some armada call back.
     
  12. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    All I know is that the wiki says as such:
     
  13. Matty

    Matty @StayingInTheBox Moderator News Staff

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    No ... just ... no.
     
  14. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    "presumably" is the key word. As far as facts go that just means its the writers opinion.

    They were not present untill after he had his changes made and he's done it to more then a few of the Macross jets I'd say its just part of his style not some Armada nod (also given that the armada toy didn't have them does not help that idea) Now if a wing popped off and turned into a sword or indeed the design had any sort of sword to start with I'd agree

    but back on topic. As some one who has been ripped of by hasbro I dont think these examples come close to making the point the OP wanted to get across
     
  15. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Wouldn't be the first time- just look at Punch / Counterpunch. Sabrina Ng did a really nice one before TFCC did it.
     
  16. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Really? This topic exists? Wow. Okay.

    The mold was an obvious choice, given his Botcon exclusive Action Master figure using the Action Master Sideswipe mold. No custom had anything to do with it. The KO G1-style Breakdown was even based on the subscription service breakdown's early photos from the last botcon. That's where they got the deco from, not the other way around.

    It's not a KO of anything. Like you said in the second sentence, it's their old pre-kawamori mold with some tweaks. That's all there is to it. Look at the picture posted earlier in this topic of the early version. It's obvious that the side leg panels even slide up for transformation like the new mold does (and like igear's KOs do), otherwise the tailfins would be hanging down past the feet.

    The entire idea of this topic is absurd, with absolutely nothing to actually back up the accusations.
     
  17. Cax6ton

    Cax6ton Insufferable Smartass

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    iGear didn't even come close to the original prototype design, and made several changes to the existing MP-03 mold that aren't in either of the Hasbro/Takara versions:

    - leg/tailfin mechanism is completely different - this was borrowed from the way the customizers did it.
    - elevator clips are sealed so the fins can't come off
    - the frame behind the cockpit was modified, making the head transformation easier
    - wrist communicators
    - modified null ray design

    The new MP-11 based mold is pretty much the prototype design, but it's very different from the MP-03 mold and the iGear mold - the wing mechanism is different, the arms are different, the head is different, the leg section is different, the weapons are different, etc.

    On the original topic: I think it's more that the 3rd party companies got Hasbro/Takara's attention - we're seeing the seekers released quickly, giving people an official alternative to iGear's releases, and the new masterpiece molds may have been influenced by what the third parties were doing. I think it's no accident that MP Soundwave was announced after the third party Soundwave got so much attention. As for blatantly ripping off the 3rd party companies' products, no. I think they're just paying attention to what gets our attention, and coming up with their own solutions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  18. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    This is kinda to the heart of where I wanted to go with this. Do they really need the third parties to know what were interested in. If so, haven't they lost touch with the fandom in some respects?

    I mean it is the old chicken and egg thing, but should HasTak be innovating vs. following? I mean, I see this all the time in corporate America (my job), so I am wondering, do they need 3rd Party teams to succeed before they man up and take the gamble?
     
  19. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    What makes you think they aren't innovating? The most important thing to keep in mind is that their priorities are likely entirely different than ours, or the 3rd party companies. How they innovate is likely going to be in different ways than offering a deco someone put on a mold they developed. The "success" or "failure" of a 3rd party item likely means nothing to them, since their market strategy and industrial infrastructure are almost entirely different.

    It's also important to remember that TFCC and HasTak are very separate organizations, and will ALSO have different priorities and means to target those priorities.
     
  20. Scaleface

    Scaleface Well-Known Member

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    G1 style Breakdown from the Sideswipe mold appeared in a Fun Pub comic before CHMS made one, so CHMS copied the idea from the Fun Pub design.
     

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