Is the Bumblebee Movie really the start of the reboot?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by JoshimusPrime1993, May 28, 2018.

  1. MegaPrime1007

    MegaPrime1007 The Great Defender of the BAYverse

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    That makes no sense. If it is a success, it will be apart of the Bayverse and they'll continue the Bayverse. If it fails, they'll likely stop making Transformer films for a while and then reboot sometime in the future.
     
  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    There is no middle ground. If Bumblebee is not wildly successful, then the most Paramount can hope for is to recoup as much as they can - if they turn a minor profit on a film that cost less than $100 million to make, then that would be enough. But it would have to pull at LEAST $600 million worldwide, same as TLK, to be worth making more films because proportionally $600 million from a low budget film is far greater return on investment than a high budget film.

    They're never making a sequel to TLK, regardless. They've written themselves into a corner because Unicron can't actually ever be shown in full without killing all of humanity, and the films kiss humanity's ass far too much to ever let that happen. Unicron would be little better than Galactus from F4: Silver Surfer, and absolutely everybody though Space Cloud Galactus was complete stupidity because not only was it not really a character, it didn't even do anything!
     
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  3. Super Bumblebee

    Super Bumblebee Autobot

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    Yes, but that appears to be what they are doing.

    Bumblebee: The Movie was originally written as a prequel to the Bayverse film series (TF1- TLK). As TLK came out in theaters, Bumblebee had already begun production. When TLK turned out to not be very well received by audiences, Paramount and Hasbro decided no matter what they did for TF6, there was no way to convince audiences to see another sequel, and the best option to continue the series was to reboot or reset the franchise. Problem was, Bumblebee was already in production.

    Luckily, Bumblebee is set in the 1980's, well before the events of TF1, meaning it can be re-framed as the foundation for a new series instead . While no one knows for sure what they will do, based on Hasbro and Paramount's recent press releases, we can assume one of these two scenarios, based on Bumblebee's performance in theaters this December:


    Option 1: Bumblebee flops at the box office- they will then say Bumblebee is the last movie set in the Bayverse series. They will presumably take 5-10 years off, and then release a complete reboot series when the time is right.


    Option 2: Bumblebee does well at the box office- They will say Bumblebee is the first movie in the rebooted series, and within 2-3 years, release a sequel to Bumblebee, presumably set in the 80's or 90's, not connected to the events of the Bayverse series.


    In other words, it appears no one, not even Hasbro, knows what universe Bumblebee is set in.
     
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  4. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Other than Bumblebee being set in the 1980's, all of that was just internet speculation. So no, it does not appear to be what they are doing, and I for one will not be assuming anything about the movie.
     
  5. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    The trades are more credible than your words of mouth. I remember the last discussion about Hasbro at Toy Fair said they were going to reset the franchise. You said that was all bull, they were not going to do anything about the current Bayformer thrash, and a sequel will come. Now, Paramount has hit with a sledgehammer and removed Bayformers out of the way, to my delight.
    Lazlow is a true TRANSFORMERS fan, and has sources within the Transformers community, judging from his last video about screening in Eastern Europe ComiCon. His information are more legitimate than yours.
    I actually hope BB flops so we can end one of the worst movie franchise ever created. Transformers franchise must reboot, but I'd rather wait a couple of years so the stain of Bayformers gets off my head.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  6. snokoan

    snokoan Well-Known Member

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    But bumblebee won't flop it's not gonna open huge or low like tlk it'll be 200 million and nice subjective
     
  7. Dmhead

    Dmhead Well-Known Member

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    People thought the same about Solo A Star Wars movie, and look how it turned out. Two of of the reason were the divisive reception of the Last Jedi and SW fatique. The Bayformer franchise is fatique, and hated by the majority of moviegoers. Taking these things to account, and I think BB will underperform.
     
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  8. snokoan

    snokoan Well-Known Member

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    Let's see nobody asked for a han solo movie with out Harrison there was drama and change of directors and a bunch of reshoots now did bumblebee have any of those problems besides the accident that happen in that one town
     
  9. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    $200 million domestic or $200 million internationally?

    I mean, for Paramount, they're still in the red after TLK only did barely under $700 million, after you factor in the idea that films these days need to make back 2.5 times the budget to be considered a real success. Anything Bumblebee makes is only going to really be considered in terms of recouping the lost profit from TLK's underperformance. You have to remember that Paramount wanted to cancel Bumblebee very shortly after TLK was a massive failure but couldn't because the film was too far into production to be worth stopping at that point. The film already is a dead man walking so to speak and the only interest Paramount still has in it, really, is to milk it dry.

    Nobody asked for a Bumblebee film either, so your argument doesn't stand.
     
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  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Not that I want Bumblebee to flop (at least not until I've seen it) but how could you possibly know how well it's going to do?
     
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  11. snokoan

    snokoan Well-Known Member

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    Ever heard of box office predictions
     
  12. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    How can it leave if?

    -If you keep returning to TFW2005 for the movie forums only?

    -If you compare the series to a reboot. Will the action still be explosions and robots moving at a fast pace punching each other?

    -The influence from these movies are too big to the point it would never leave you. Heck some of the influence has already 'corrupted' parts of the franchise.
     
  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    $200 million domestic would be good, but at the same time you know how much TLK did domestically? $137 million. And given Bumblebee is being billed as a Transformers film in the same series as the critically panned, nearly universally hated across the board even by Transformers standards, and people are sick of the yellow bastard to the point this being a prequel starring him is reason enough to avoid it regardless of how it actually does.

    Like, just look at the weekend numbers of Solo, which was pushed HARD by Disney: $103 million opening weekend domestic, $148 million international.

    Solo is making headlines for how disappointing its opening weekend take is...and yet in one weekend, it brought in 75% of TLK's lifetime domestic gross. And that's for a franchise which even after the boring snooze-fest of contrivance and bullshit that was TLJ, the general public still thinks can produce good films and from Disney.

    And if it's $200 million internationally/in total, well...that's an even bigger failure than TLK.

    The point is, no matter which box office number you're predicting, you don't seem to get that either case would be an easy motivator for Paramount to kill Transformers for years because of low profitability.
     
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  14. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Hooked on a Feeling!

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    To be fair, we don't know for sure that Paramount wanted to cancel Bumblebee. The only place I've ever heard that is from Optibotimus, but he's not really a reliable source.

    I don't think most people are sick of Bumblebee, just a certain group of fans who are in the minority. There are still plenty of children who love Bumblebee, and plenty of casual adult fans (and even a lot of active fans) who are nostalgic for the character. He's a pretty big pop-culture character at this point.
     
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  15. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    My question right now is how Jumanji made nearly a billion dollars? A movie that came out close to Star Wars.

    I mean did we ask for this?
     
  16. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Hooked on a Feeling!

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    I don't know that we can judge Bumblebee's success or failure based on Solo. They're both very different franchises in different situations.

    Think about it this way: if the Bumblebee movie gets 70% on Rotten Tomatoes, it will look like a masterpiece in comparison to the other Transformers movies. On the other hand, Solo's 70% is pretty low relative to most of the other Star Wars movies.

    We've had a lot more Star Wars recently than Transformers. Solo followed 5 months after The Last Jedi, which was a pretty controversial movie. TLK was controversial too, but it will be a year and a half since that. Also, the outrage for TLJ was far more widespread than the outrage for TLK. It also doesn't help that Solo came out a few weeks after Infinity War.

    Also, I don't think Solo was marketed very well. The first trailer and stills didn't drop until about three months before the movie, and even then Disney never really pushed it that hard. I feel like Disney themselves thought of Solo as kind of disposable, especially since they have Infinity War and a bunch of other moneymakers. On the other hand, Paramount is probably going to pour everything they have into Bumblebee considering their future is somewhat dependent on it.
     
  17. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    Another reason I think Solo didn't do too well is... We already know so much about Han Solo anyway in the original trilogy.

    What else is there to tell us about him? Besides add certain things from Star Wars Legends. We know his deed with the Kessel Run. We don't need to know where he got his surname.

    In contrast to a Kenobi movie? I mean someone wants to know the mystery about him between Episode 3 and 4.

    To be biased, Bumblebee has so much open we don't know about.
    -Assuming if it is part of the same universe, what's the story Optimus meant in AOE when he referred to Bumblebee as a rebellious teen?

    -What was Bumblebee's life on Cybertron like? How exactly in canon did he lose his voice?

    -What did he in the World War period in all seriousness?

    -Does the VW tie in with the 2007 movie scene?
     
  18. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    The film has its origins with the existing series. Elements of the previous Bumblebee design will be carried over. Beyond that, I'd be surprised if they make a point of connecting it to the Bay movies. I expect the film could leave a lot of that to the viewer's imagination. If you want it to be connected to TF1, they're not going to have anything in the movie to specifically contradict that, but if you want something new, they're not going to be constantly reminding you of Bayverse.

    When it comes close to release, I think they're going to have to decide how they're going to market it. They may conclude that for commercial purposes, it's better to tell the public 'this is a fresh start, give us another chance'. Or they could decide that even though TLK was regarded as a flop, it still took in a lot of money, and they want to recapture as much of that audience as they can, so why distance it.

    The film will be its own thing. Whether they choose to call it existing series or all-new may just be a marketing distinction.

    I imagine at this stage, it's probably closer to refresh/ soft reboot. If the film is well-received and successful, they could build on that and splinter it off into a separate continuity. In which case it will serve as the foundation for a full reboot.
     
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  19. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    If there is any connection whatsoever to the previous 5 films, canonically speaking, then it is a part of that film series. Full stop. As is any future film connected to Bumblebee.
     
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  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    It's been confirmed several times over by SilverOptimus.

    That's debatable at this point but I will admit Paramount has yet to begin the marketing push for the film.

    Having seen Jumanji: WTTJ, that film was a sleeper hit largely because it took an old premise (game comes to life) but modernized it (somewhat, it's still an old game console) and then flipped the concept on its head by sending the kids INTO the game (which is what happened to the one guy in the original Jumanji - this is even acknowledged in passing by signs of that guy's time in Jumanji still being there with the new team). They also just entirely got rid of the annoying kids by replacing them with a bunch of stereotype adventurers - or in this case famous actors pretending to be teenagers (Jack Black's portrayal of a high school drama queen turned overweight middle aged man is particularly good). Furthermore, the plot is much better because instead of events which amount to playing keep-away with the game board to prevent the protags from playing it, there actually is a whole quest going on and the stakes are higher in that they can actually die this time around (vs the original Jumanji and conceptually similar property Zathura where the game screwed up real life but was not actively trying to kill you).

    The film itself isn't groundbreaking in any sense since it even lampshades how four teens with problems end up maturing through the game and become better people as a result, but the story is rock solid with its simplicity and thus it doesn't ever have the sense of imbalance like the Transformer films. Specifically, it's about the character interaction and its cast is relatively small in terms of actual characters so it's more an adventure drama than actual action adventure.

    Compared to TLJ which has an extremely lousy plot - 75% of the film wouldn't even happen if one character wasn't written like a complete idiot and spouts worryingly vague nonsense when one character asks "how exactly are we going to get out of this situation", because NOT telling him is the only way they even can set up a completely avoidable series of events that conveniently is the only way the ending could even happen.

    With Jumanji, there never is a point where you're left questioning the stupidity of the characters being the driving force of the plot of the film, meaning you aren't distracted from what is actually in front of you at all times.

    Except the normal time between the last few sequels was three years, so in essence Bumblebee is coming at twice the speed of the norm - and originally it was supposed to be coming out in a month or two from right now as well had TLK not proven a complete disaster.

    Except it was never explored with regards to his origin, how he got involved in the smuggling business, when he met Lando and more importantly Chewbacca, and of course one of the most fateful moments in all of Star Wars: when Han first encounters the Millennium Falcon.

    Sure, we know who Han is in his later years, but he forms a big portion of the original Star Wars story simply because he's the pilot of one of the most famous space ships in fictional history and of course is heavily involved with the main plot of the original trilogy as a result. And before Solo, there really wasn't anything known about his past beyond how he actually GOT the Falcon from Lando (Lando made a cocky bet at a card game that Han could have 'any vessel parked at (some location I don't recall)' if he won, Han won, and unfortunately for Lando one of the ships who fit the criteria he stated was the Falcon) - nobody asked for his surname to be part of that history, and honestly it still doesn't matter that much.

    I think the possibility of that already is under consideration.

    I highly doubt they're going to touch on that with Bumblebee.

    DID NOBODY ACTUALLY WATCH THE FIRST FILM?! I mean, come on, it's outright STATED by Ratchet in the first film film during the Autobot team introductions that Bumblebee's voice being damaged was 'compliments of Megatron' - in the comic (especially the motion comic included with some versions of the first film's DVD), Bumblebee is the one who launches the AllSpark into space and Megatron rips his voicebox out in a rage before flying off to chase the cube.

    It's like everybody these days cares so much about how Age of Extinction and The Last Knight made up nonsensical garbage fluff, to the point of actively ignoring or forgetting things established in the first film.

    Also probably not going to be touched on.

    I can already tell you that's a big fat no. Again, in the first film, when Bumblebee makes his first appearance of any kind, we see him in the rusty Camaro drive up behind Sam and his father when they get to Bolivia's car lot.

    Out of sheer curiosity, where does that leave the "rebooted" Star Trek continuity's first film? Since that series has outright ties to the original series with the bad guys going back through time and waging war against the Federation before their planet is ever destroyed (which kills Kirk's father and leaves Kirk to grow up a very different person) and original continuity Spock shows up and meets with alternate timeline Nu-Spock, meaning the original continuity and the new continuity effectively co-exist. Then during Into Darkness, Nu-Spock contacts OG Spock to ask him about Khan, to which OG Spock talks about OG Khan, even though OG Khan could be taken to be a very different character from Nu-Khan and Nu-Khan has a very different and brief impact in comparison to OG Khan.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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