is anyone bitter at the TF scene?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by e3nine, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    I've been an avid collector since 2001. I grew up with the figures (1984 - 1987) and was hooked on the reissues almost from the start.

    Although the reissues ruined the "value" of my boxed originals, I got over it and started chasing all of them down. e-Hobby, Japanese exclusives, TRU, Takara's, TFC's ...

    My love for G1 spawned onto other lines, naturally. Most recently, the Movie figures. Around June or July last year, I was at a TRU on the launch day. I then went to Target and Wal-Mart in hopes of finding even more. What I came away with was an Optimus Prime, Megatron, and a few deluxes.

    Yay, awesome.



    Fast forward to today ... Encores and Movie "Premium" figures.

    Encore is re-releasing reissues. "Premiums" make 8 month old toys look bad. Instead of giving the fans something new, instead of making something for the people ... Hasbro and TomyTakara have done nothing but made me question my previous purchases. I'm constantly second guessing any TF I buy ... and now I'm on the brink of saying "f it all ... I'm done."

    Anyone else like this?
     
  2. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Not really.

    It's not "instead of given us something new" it's "giving us something with the new". They're still plenty of new figs being made. (not as many as I hoped, but really, it's tough to sell non-film characters)

    Encore reissues are great for people who don't have many G1 figs (like me). Did you ever think about the people who do want these? Maybe there were people who missed or skipped the first run of movie figs, and are rewarded for their patience with these premium figs. Encore is a life-saver for me. Finally I have a chance to own Sky-lynx, OS, Jazz and all them without paying ebay prices.

    They're just doing what they do best. Making and selling toys. They're not purposly trying to ruin the value of your older reissues.

    The only reason they're releasing the premium figures now is because the movie was much more successful than they thought and they can afford to make these higher quality figures without worrying too much about supply and demand.
     
  3. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Reissues will always happen. In that regard the encore line isn't any different than a new years optimus prime, the dreamwave tfc boxes, the TRU reissues, etc. There's no reason to be bitter about them, just get over it.

    The premium line is another story. Yes, they can afford to make better painted figures for the movie line now that it sold so well(gotta keep in mind that production for these figures starts long before they hit shelves), but the problem with that is they're repainting the entire line with the good paint apps after everyone bought them in the first place, so people go buy them again to get the best representation of the figure. A lot of people don't like that.
     
  4. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Well, again, nobody's forcing anyone to buy them.
     
  5. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    Absolutely not arguing here ... but I guess this topic is very "point-of-view".


    Skipping the movie figures is impossible. If you wanted them, you would have purchased them by now. Why? Because all case assortments are still shipping. On the shelf today, I'll see a Nightwatch OP with the regular one. 70's Bee with 08 Bee, now Cliffjumper.

    I was there on day 1 and it feels like I'm getting punished for supporting the product.


    I think TomyTakara use eBay as a measuring tool. They see how their current product isn't selling, then use eBay statistics to judge their next move.

    For example, lets look at the Encore line.
    - The first wave was done to cash in on Movie hype. Around July 4th, KO Primes were even going for $300, $400, $500.

    - Ironhide and Ratchet go against the "limited edition, only 1,000 sets" tag placed onto them when sold at e-Hobby. Now, Encore has devalued the e-Hobby brand.

    - Around movie time (again) TFC 01 Jazz was at $90+. Now look.

    - Omega Supreme and Sky Lynx I have no issues with. (and this is coming from a guy that has these MIB from the 80's)


    Of course any corporation is around to make money. There's nothing wrong with keeping numbers in the green.

    The recent practices are feel like we (the supporters) are getting exploited and juiced at every opportunity.


    Again, see above.

    I see these as a cheap shot. If Hasbro could get away with 10 repaints, they'd do it. Fortunately, they can't ... so, let's try "premium" toys. If " movie premium" toys are supported, there will be no end.

    Again, this is all based off of the idea that Hasbro loves pushing profits at the sacrifice of the people who put them there.

    A final example is the AFA Alternators Rodimus on HBTS.com. There's no excuse for that.
     
  6. TENIME_art

    TENIME_art Ethically Challenged

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    Thing is, with Encore, it gives people like me a chance to get something that I never had as a kid. I missed G1 (parents could only afford TMNT...not complaining, just saying). I missed the reissues (never even knew they existed until I started getting back into TFs - thank you, Classics!). I still haven't gotten any Encores, but that's my checkbook's fault this time around. :cry 

    You don't have to buy the Encore figures if you already have the originals and/or reissues. But, please don't begrudge others the chance to get something that could otherwise have cost them 2, 3, even 4 times the cost on eBay.
     
  7. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    I absolutely see your point. There's no way that the retardation of fan growth should be done.

    I guess my main gripe is ... mis-advertisement? If something is limited to 1,000, keep it that way. Even though the box changed, it's still the same mold. It's the same deal.

    And again, bouncing back to "premiums" ... call it what it is, "movie reissues" done 8 months after their release. It's just not processing how Hasbro can reissue toys when they're still readily available.
     
  8. TENIME_art

    TENIME_art Ethically Challenged

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    I hate "limited runs". It's bullcrap (as evidenced), and it only drives the price up (thank you, scalpers!).

    As for them releasing the Encores to combat eBay prices. I'm glad. I'd rather spend $50 on a G1 Prime from the company that makes it, than $100+ from some stranger that has no credibility, other than "99% positive feedback". I'm not going to cry that someone who would've wallet-raped me can't make as much anymore. I'm sorry.
     
  9. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think Hasbro UNDERESTIMATED the demand for premium figures.

    When people were buying the regular figs and painting them and selling them for 200$ on ebay with nothing but a good paint job, Hasbro goes 'oh crap, we could have done that!'

    And then People customized Battle Heads and Custom weapons... and Hasbro goes 'Oh Crap, We could have done that too!'

    Basically They were not going to pull the trigger on any 'new' feature that wasn't going to increase sales. Premium paint jobs and Fiddly extra bits are an UNKNOWN and may not have been worth the production expense.

    But I think they are finding that it is worth the expense and gives life to a mold longer than a Single repaint. It is all $$$ to them.

    And Hasbro doesn't nor should it care about the re-sale collectors market because they don't make a dime off of collectors.

    I have no problem with AFA grading the Hot Rodimus Alternator.

    *Alternators are a mostly dead line that the target is almost 80%+ collectors.
    *Alternators boxes are going to be heavily damaged during shipping and shelving as they are seen as 'garbage' by toy retailers.
    *AFA grading is not cheap or easy to get done.

    So let's see there are MISB collectors looking for MINT alternators Hot Rod that hasn't been through shipping, handling and molestation of the toy shelves... And then go get it AFA graded. For a collector who really wants a premium MISB item, Why not get it from HASBRO directly guaranteed sealed?

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT.

    Lots of fans are buying items for the long term sealed collection and can't find undamaged boxes. They pay more at second-hand retailers for Collectors grade boxes already.

    Hasbro is not out to exploit hardcore collectors. Their primary and only focus is KIDS BUYING TOYS.
     
  10. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't recall any original g1 figures(the encore line), being made in some limited number. Omega Supreme and SkyLynx were certainly not "limited edition", and neither were OP, Megs, SS, Soundwave, Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, etc.

    You can't complain about Hasbro/Takara re-issuing limited edition figures, when they weren't actually limited edition in the first place.
     
  11. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    Ironhide and Ratchet were released earlier in the decade though e-Hobby. Their exact count was 1,000 for the set. They were deemed a "limited run".

    If you pitch the "rarity" of a toy as a selling point, then charge accordingly ... fine. You just can't turn around and call "redo" when profits need a spike.

    Poor business ethics. The collectors paying the premium were ... basically lied to.


    With Sky Lynx and Omega, there's no numbers designated on those ... fair game.


    Am I the crazy one for seeing things like this? : \
     
  12. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    The encore line isn't re-issues of some limited run of e-hobby ironhide and ratchet, they're re-issues of the original g1 figures. The e-hobby versions may have been limited in number, but anyone who was seriously expecting any g1 figure to never be re-issued again needs a reality check.
     
  13. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    I seriously have no problems with TakaraTomy reissuing TFs because it gives those a chance who missed out on them when they were first released.

    Heck, I bought vintage G1 Omega Supreme and conventional exclusives TFs such as Ironhide, Thundercracker etc and I'm BOUGHT or BUYING the regular reissues! LOL! One thing I'm concerned though is the seemingly endless TF repaints...I'm afraid they will clog the shelves...
     
  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Funny, I was able to skip tons of 'em. I could've skipped the whole line. Instead, I chose to buy what I liked (except for Swindle but I got him free:p ) and skipped what I didn't like.

    That's a little extreme, don't you think? How can Hasbro punish you?


    I highly doubt that. But then again, you never know with them. For all we know, they have experts who moniter the auctions.:lol 

    I see... I also agree, I have no doubt that the Encore line is riding on the back of the movie line.

    I don't see exactly what you mean by this, could you elaborate? (I'm not being rude, I'm just interested at what you're getting at) This stems mostly from my lack of knowledge of E-hobby and how it's works. From what I've seen, it makes repaints exclusive to it's site, how does that make it the victum?

    Then what are you complaining about? That's just what the're doing.

    They can only exploit you if you let them. I don't feel exploited, but then again, I haven't been collecting everything with "TRANSFORMERS" slapped on it. Hasbro does what they know will sell. If people buy repaints, they think repaints do well, and make more. No scemes, just figures and statistics. Sure Hasbro wants to milk the movie line for all it's worth. Who wouldn't? The film was a huge success. That's why my beloved Animated was pushed so far back.:) cry)


    There will always be repaints, like it or not. Like I said, chances are, if they had the money the first time, or they knew how successful the movie was going to be, they could've done the originals more like these. There's nothing forcing you to buy them.Complaining about repaints is like complaining that Transformers even exist. (half the characters we love are just repaints)

    So, Hasbro's intentionally trying to screw themselves over? I'm sorry but why would competant marketers doom themselves like that? Pushing profits yes, but not to the point where they sabotage themselves.


    I completely agree. That was just retarded, IMO. It's like scalping your own product.


    I really hate to do the whole "pick your post apart bit-by-bit deal", but I just wanted to address each point with my opinion, I apologize for doing so. Before you think that I'm getting on your case, I'm not. I agree with some, if not most of you're getting at, but some things just make no sense. I just don't like the idea when fans complain about being forced to buy figures. It's just simple: If you don't like it, don't buy it.

    As much as I would like to continue, I must take my leave. But consider what I've bolded in my last paragraph. I have certainly considered what you have said.(even if I was a bit foggy on some aspects) Plus, it's better to end this now on semi-good terms before this spirals.thumb
     
  15. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    Dude ... it's the same thing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Well, that's pretty much a given. Again, not the point.



    The topic is the current methodology behind TomyTakara's / Hasbro's revenue generating.

    It's poopy.
     
  16. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Well, I never buy a toy because I care about its value... well, to anyone but myself. I never plan to sell anything. Rereleasing thing over and over again may seem redundant, but I am gald myself and others have the chance to get something we may have missed. In 2002, I was unable to purchase all the reissues I wanted because of college coming up and other expenses. Now, I have more then enough to get the Encores if I so choose, so I am happy about that.

    As for the premiums, well, I agree that it makes me second guess, but at the same time, I don't feel anger because I know nobody is making me buy anything and I would rather them release these then not. We are going to see repaints and such, so as long as new molds aren't given the shaft for a repaint, I am ok. Of course there is no real way to prove weather or not that's happened.

    Anyways, no, I am not bitter, but I have been less selective then usual, and due to the movie series and their repaints, I am going to switch back to being much more selective.
     
  17. Cax6ton

    Cax6ton Insufferable Smartass

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    I learned a long time ago that I wasn't going to make it as a TF collector if I focused on the monetary value of the toys....there's too much that is going to change as long as it remains primarily a kids toy line.

    As for reissues/encores: I agree it's getting a bit silly, but it does give people the chance to get molds that they may not have been able to get before. My G1 boxed Omega Supreme will still mean a lot to me, and I'm happy that others who wanted him will be able to get it cheaper. I learned to feel the same way about the KOs coming out...sure it hurts the value of my G1 Metroplex, but his potential sale value isn't the only reason I have held on to him all these years.

    Movie premium figs: I was actually guessing that this was going to happen if the line sold well. That's the catch-22 with toy collecting. One could always trade/sell the figures you already have and replace them with premiums.....don't think of the money spent as a penalty for early-adoption, think of it as a small fee you pay for getting to play with them a lot earlier:D 
     
  18. e3nine

    e3nine Poop.

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    Sure, no problemo ...

    At the start, e-Hobby pitched their online store as a place to get exclusive toys, be it in an existing paint scheme or original (Sunstorm). To further drive the "collector's" tag (even printed on their boxes), they made limited quantities. It seemed like 1,000 was the magic number for the sets. (back then, obvious repaints were only sold as sets ... Sideswipe / Red Alert, Hoist / Trailbreaker, etc)

    So, we have figures being sold as "limited".


    Now TomyTakara takes the "limited", then calls "redo". This (in my eye) devalues e-Hobby because what they call "limited", really isn't. A main selling point, one of their key marketing pieces is worthless.
     
  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Now I see what you mean. The figures themselves are still the same.

    If the "limited"s are stil MISB, you think there wouldn't be a problem. But I see what you mean by people who bought the pricey "limited" versions now find out they're not limited to just being "limited".
     
  20. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    No, it's not the same thing. The e-hobby version is not the original figure sold as a transformers toy in the 80's, it's a re-issue of that figure sold a few years back. And just the same, the encore release is a re-issue of the original g1 figure.

    It's pretty obvious when the encore re-issue is in a g1 style box, vs the e-hobby packaging.

    From what I get out of your posts, if the new years release of optimus prime a few years back was a limited run, that there would never again be a re-issue of g1 optimus prime. And that is not going to happen with transformers.

    You seem to be content with understanding that companies sell products to make money, so why is Hasbro/Takara/Tomy exempt from this? They aren't allowed to sell products because you overpayed for a re-issue in a limited edition box a few years back? Those companies don't make diddly off of the secondary market(unless there's some conspiracy that they crank out a new MISB fort max to put on ebay every few weeks to line their pockets, which of course isn't worth the trouble for them), and they have no reason to care how much you could sell a figure for that they already sold you, aside from the fact that they can sell more.
     

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