what about VCR?

 

It was unorganized at times, but I think people still felt a stronger connection to the guys I mentioned vs. guys like Huffer, Sideswipe, Sunstreak, Hoist, etc.

Older cartoon's obviously have their flaws, but there's no reason to believe that you can't have a story about an army, focus on five to seven main characters with the rest of the guys in the background, and then introduce minor members of the team from time to time.

I disagree, I loved the 90s X-Men and Spiderman, and thought they did a very good job in developing their stories and characters. I mean you had Prof. X and his relationship to his step brother, the tension between Cyclops, Wolverine, and Jean, the Phoenix Saga, Gambit and Rogue's little love affair, Wolverine's search for his identity, the percieved death and insanity of Morph. These aren't topics that you usually see in a cartoon. Obviously the storylines were influenced from their comic mythos, but I initially learned everything I knew about X-Men from their cartoons. Even if you didn't like it, you have to admit that it was a popular show amongst all age groups. Everyone seems to love X-Men.

I haven't seen an X-Men episode in about four years now, so maybe my opinion would changed, but I still think that those are the types of story lines that you don't see too often in children's shows.

Either way, I think you can admit that Batman had a complex an adult enough story line to please loyal fans and attract younger ones. The ones that find that middle ground are the ones that stand the test of time, and lead to longer popularity.

 

And considering what we've heard about guest stars, isn't that the approach they're taking here without the massive kind of disorganization G1 had?

It was popular, but I don't think it succeeded. The acting and pacing was stilted, and the animation often stiff and awkward. The fact it adapted comic storylines isn't the problem, either, is that it would often jump from one to another going in and out, in and out.

And whose to say BTAS didn't skew itself to an older age group? Its successors, such as JLU, would be marketed by CN towards the teenager crowd by putting it on Toonami (indeed, at a later time than other shows), rather than its seven-years-and-up blocks. Its placement on its individual blocks were just as likely to draw from specific age groups, and not just universal ones - and this was attractive to Fox because it still increases a more diverse viewer constituency.

Either way, whose to say that putting it down to a younger age group's level makes it infantile? Teen Titans had a story about the idea of moral relativism, and another about Robin going crazy to the point of self abuse, thinking he saw his arch enemy. There were lots of lighter episodes, but they were fun, and creative, showing that you can play with comedy in a show as well as drama. I'd go so far as to say that Transformers G1 is more infantile than Teen Titans, and its sister series, Ben 10 and Legion of Super Heroes - the latter of which had a secondary member sacrificing his life to save his team.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this series, BUT I agree that TF needs to get some new life, frankly I'm tired of the same stories being told with each new 'imagining' of the show. I wish we were in the 80s sometimes where they tried to make a show last in one universe and the toline that goes along with it for as long as they can, seems now they give shows a shelf life and end it no matter what after it hits that date. then do it all over again with a different art directionand slightly different story.

 

Perhaps. I always saw G1 Autobots as a small army, whereas I get the feeling that Animated has a small team and will have occassional guest characters. Guys like Huffer and Brawn were always apart of thea team, but were just more in the background. But I might be wrong.

Obviously I don't quite know the story of Animated yet, but it seems a bit silly for the Autobots to have a group of 5-7 soldiers on Earth. That's too small of a group and seems vulnerable. Maybe there is a reason for that, but that's just an observation. I'd prefer to see a large cast with a greater focus on a 5-7. Let's see what happens.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend. I loved X-Men and thought it succeeded in telling an interesting story. I actually initially thought X-Men was stupid, and remember thinking that Wolverine was a silly looking character when I first saw his toy. A cartoon is a cartoon, and it will have its flaws. Still, I've met so many people in college the last few years (both males and females) who loved X-Men the cartoon. I don't think people make such strong emotional attachments to cartoons/tv shows unless they trully enjoyed the story.

It was originally on Fox Kids.

The difference between BTAS and other cartoons is that it's writers aimed to tell a good story instead of selling toys. If you can focus on a good story you won't have to worry about selling toys, attracting children, respecting older fans...it all takes care of itself.

The guy they interviewed said something along the lines of, if you're old enough to post on a message board that this show isn't really aimed at you. I'll give it a shot for sure. I'll even be willing to wake up at 7 AM on a Saturday (this isn't something I've done by choice in about 8 year now), but from the early sounds of things I'm getting the impression that they're saying this show isn't something that'll really captivate the 15-30 year old fans.

 

I just want Blitzwing to be in the show so I can buy the toy. Any one know for sure if he's gonna be in it?

 

It worked just fine for BW. But even then, we know people will be coming in and out and working with the Autobots, so what's the problem? They don't even appear to be on Earth to fight a big war in the first place. A large army doesn't seem to work for the concept.

Yeah, and people have strong emotional ties to a series in this fandom that made many spectacular storytelling blunders. It's called G1.

The best example of X-Men's stilted storytelling is the hamfisted way they fall back on making Lilandra and Xavier attracted to one another despite never having met. And it wasn't physical.

Yes, but they never separated teenager and younger children programming at the time.

Yes, and I'm sure few adults were captivated by Beast Wars, G1, and even JLU, and what adults were still around were there because they were longtime fans.

Nevertheless, if you go TT's route, and you get a mix like it did, you are going to alienate the unbiased adult fanbase. The adults who have fewer reasons to watch this, or the adults who are in fandoms already and want nothing that isn't all fanwanky and mature.

 

Not really. It wasn't until later when a bunch of new characters were showing up that Beast Wars became interesting. Before that, the tiny group thing seemed like some silly reality show in hindsight.

 

It clarified and had more room for characters to move around in than the storyline where bunches of people showed up to show off their quirky personality of the moment.

 

I'm just so sick & tired of always having to hear how G1 was such a piece of crap so whatever comes out now will be better than G1 and thus it must be great.
Yes, G1 is very dated in some area's. The show is over 20 years old. WHY keep comparing it to whatever comes out in 2007/8? People liking G1, a dated show, does not equal the same people having to like whatever new TF show that comes out.

G1 was a great show for it's time and a lot of us still like it for what it is. The show was so good, you couldn't walk into a toy store without being flooded in G1 goodness. No-one is saying CN should just air G1 again as obviously things have changed over the last 2 decades and kids wouldn't watch it anymore.
I do feel that you could tweak the old G1 concept and modernize it enough to not only be interesting to kids, but to make them fall in love with this franchise like we all did back in the '80s.

Maybe the new Animated show will do that and that would be a great thing. Just please stop trying to make a point that a show should be good just because it will most likely be better than a 20 year old show. That's not really a feat.

 

I argue that because I don't think G1 was good for it's time. Yes, it didn't have all the bells and whistles of the animation studios cared about, but that's significant anyway because it showed how invested they were in the parts of the cartoon that mattered - just as it did with all the problems in Armada. Writing is as hold as history, and 20 or so years ago doesn't change the standards for that kind of thing.

 

That's entirely impossible to say until we know the premise.

What are you expecting, Masterpiece Theater? There's nothing wrong with having storytelling blunders. It's a cartoon, it's to be expected. Doesn't mean that the whole show goes to crap. If you're going to take a cartoon too seriously, you're not going to enjoy it. If the writers purposely dumb down the show to sell it to seven year olds they're closing the doors to a lot of fans for no reason.

There is really no way of proving this one way or the other. I agree the JLA and Batman Beyond were targeted at teenagers. I think BTAS was made with the intention of telling a damn good story. It accomplished this, and became one of the most successful and respected cartoons of the last twenty years. The writting was relatively mature for a cartoon, yet I enjoyed it tremendously as a kid and still enjoy it now. That's the strength of BTAS. Anyone who gives it a chance can enjoy it. The recent Transformer cartoons have been crap, and kids will grow out of them.

The adults that you described are dumb if thats what they are expecting. These are unreal expectations, and an over generalization. It's a cartoon, that's a given. There'll be thin plots, stupid villans, and plenty of "gimmes". But true good writing can make a show that's favored by all ages. It's not that hard, it just seems that the people at Hasbro believe that you can't please children and adults at the same time.

 

Hmmm, I think the GIGANTIC impact G1 had during the 80's sorta speaks for itself. The show did what it set out to do, it connected with kids all around the world and made TF's the #1 toy for quite some time.
Now some fans will say that they didn't like the cartoon and became fans due to the comic or the toys. I liked the comic back then as well, though I think it's safe to say it was hardly "good for it's time".
Maybe you thought the cartoon was great back then, but now you think it's crap having looked at it again after all these years. That doesn't mean the cartoon wasn't great for its time, that just means it's dated.
Or maybe you didn't become interested in Tf's until BW or G2 even.....again by that time a show from the 80's will be dated.
Good writing stands the test of time? We're talking about a cartoon from the 80's here aimed at 7 year olds. Compared to the stuff being aired during the 80's, it was a great cartoon. GI Joe, Voltron, Thundercats, Mask, Inspector Gadget????

Kids these days expect different things from their cartoons from what we did and so the type of storytelling done back then doesn't fit them anymore. I seriously doubt many great movies from back then would even make any kind of impact these days if released without some serious revamping.

It's the same thing when people start hating on G1 toys saying they're crap. Yes, compared to todays standards they are indeed inferior. So what? They set the standard for what TF's should be. The best damn total package of good toy + good fiction to make boys from 6-12 scream and whine every X-mas at their moms to have Santa give them more G1 goodness. The movie looks like it will finally bring TF's back to where they belong and hopefully Animated will continue this.

 

We're talking about a 22-minute toy commercial. If it's popular, it's definitely a success.

 

From the panels I attended, I get the impression that the Autobots in the show aren't really a military force. Apparently, Ratchet is the only one to have actually fought in combat, and David Kaye's Optimus sounds really young as if he's a rooky.

 

This is a -genuine- new take on the franchise. We haven't seen anything like this since probably Beast Wars, and look how that turned out? Even then Beast Wars wasn't an incredibly radical departure.

This is certainly a "suck it and see" situation. If the writing is as good as Teen Titans weaker episodes, then it's certainly going to be entertaining at the very least.

 

I meant as a story. A piece of writing that holds up to a qualitative scrutiny.

 

I'd just like to say I'm excited to see the toys and show. I like the Teen Titans and pretty much all cartoons based on a DC property. I feel like G1 is done and I'm fine with it. I think this new series has a lot of potential and the toys do too. I don't particularly like Prime's head but it may look better once I see the actual animation.

Call me Crazy, but it kinda sounded to me like there would be a lot of robots in the series since Detroit is the capitol of robotics in this future world. They may be drones but I bet we get to see a lot more robots get smashed, blown up, and maybe even ripped apart. Oh and don't think for a second there won't be tons of none show characters out there to buy. It happens in every TF show/movie. Cheers!

 

I'm quite looking forward to this now, I thought the movie wouldn't be any cop but nearly everyone I know who has seen it says it's great so obviously I was wrong about that.
I think the same will apply to this and hell if it gives us a brand new Blitzwing and Ultra Magnus not to mention a decent sized Grimlock then it can't be all bad.  

 

Sounds like he decided to go backwards into time while Transformers are going forward full-speed.