If you're the screenwriters, how would you delete TLK from being canon?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by NemesisPrime12, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    AOE wouldn't have a meaning anyway, but it is brilliant Movie, establishing actual cinematic universe.
    No, please, not. Such a reboot would be desecration on all glorious Movieverse history.
     
  2. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

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    *potentially weak, poorly thought-out and very briefly researched suggestion to follow*

    Quintessa, being "the great deceiver," could be lying about everything, including Earth being Unicron. The horns could be elaborate props to sell the lie. Perhaps her goal is to simply rule the Earth/lay claim to its resources. But rather than present herself as an antagonist, she pretends to assist the Transformers and the humans while secretly using them to weaken and destroy each other.

    She created the Talisman/Excalibur and the Round Table. They have the same brainwashing/mind control ability she has. Anyone, human or Transformer, in current or prior possession of these artifacts has been influenced by them to believe the lie. Quintessa allowed the Knights of Cybertron to believe they had escaped her control when they fled to Earth, but it was a deception to get the Talisman into human hands and corrupt that race as well. Everyone in the Order of the Witwiccans believed they were helping Transformers stay hidden throughout the ages, but after the Knights, no Transformer came to Earth until the twentieth century. They were actually helping to develop a technological infrastructure to be used by Quintessa when she arrived. The mind control leads to deterioration and suicide.

    Ultimately the only way to defeat Quintessa's influence is to kill her and destroy her artifacts, but she has carefully convinced everyone that she is helping them to fight a threat--Unicron--that doesn't actually exist. In the end she will take possession of Earth, with humans and/or Transformers as slave races to serve her, likely never even realizing or understanding that they've been subjugated.
     
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  3. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Make it so everything after the scene of Optimus drifting in space becomes a vision.
    As he nears Cybertron, he reboots and sees that things are vastly different.

    Enter the Reboot. ;) 
     
  4. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    How about this:

    Entire TLK was just Simmons smoking weed?
     
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  5. Majestic Senzu

    Majestic Senzu Cautiously Optimistic

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    Ignore it like AOE in TLK. That's the beauty of not pretending to be a "shared cinematic universe".
     
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  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    Consider it an alternate timeline, then - wouldn't be the first time something like that has mattered in a Transformers property.

    Though thanks to the absolute horseshit ancient history addendum that The Last Failure shoved into its plot about the knights and whatnot, time travel actually can't fix it because that would then alter all of human history from what ever the fuck it is supposed to be currently. The continuity is so messed up because the writers are fucking hacks who can't make up a plot without having to make up some bullshit ancient history tie in, that it's unsalvageable with how many self-contradictions are going on. Oh, and fucking killing off the entire cast at one point was a mistake Hasbro should have learned back in 1986, since it wasn't just Prime dying that kind of fucked G1 over as a result of trying to make a movie-length toy commercial to explain where all the early G1 guys went and where all the late G1 guys came from.

    Like, there's a reason these films keep having to establish some kind of historical anchor to the plot - because they have no actual clue how to proceed. That's why the BB film is set before the events of the first film instead of after The Last Failure, even though the latter would have been the far better option since then Bumblebee wouldn't inevitably have to ditch the female lead in the film as a character who won't ever return.
     
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  7. Galvatross

    Galvatross Online Fandoms Suck! Veteran

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    But some fans, myself included, don't see it that way. G1 was going to fade in popularity either way at some point during its original run.

    Besides, I think the later G1 characters are much more interesting than most of the early cast. The 1986 movie and later seasons actually allowed for a much more diverse source material. Unicron, reformatted Decepticons, an insane Decepticon leader, an Autobot leader who doubted his leadership abilities, Quintessons as the vile creators of the Transformers, Sharkticons as their merciless servants, Junkions, Headmasters, etc. Without the changes, G1 would have been a lot more boring with the largely dull pre-movie cast.

    And it's not like the movies or G1 ever completely got rid of their earlier casts. Galvatron was Megatron reformatted. Optimus Prime was resurrected briefly as a zombie and later for good. Starscream was a ghost in two episodes. Soundwave, the Dinobots, Bumblebee (who later became Goldbug), Astrotrain, the Coneheads, Blitzwing, etc. Not to mention cameos by Beachcomber, Warpath, and others. The movies still have some robots from earlier movies, like Optimus Prime, Bee, Megatron, Barricade, and Wheelie.

    If anything The Last Knight should have brought back fewer characters that were thought to be dead who at the very least were missing, because bringing back those characters didn't do jack squat to improve the movie.

    Until the actual film comes out, we have no way of knowing why Steinfeld and Bee are no longer together.
     
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  8. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    I was actually talking about the Marvel Comics. Time travel and alternate timelines is how Marvel managed to have Megatron and Galvatron co-exist simultaneously. And fight each other.

    [​IMG]

    And as awesome as it would be to have Megatron fight Galvatron in the movie sense? The writers won't do that, because that would require either bad guy to win.

    And the bad guys never win in the films. You'd have to hold a Walthers handgun to their heads to make them actually even conceive of such an alien concept as the good guys not finishing a film with their enemies absolutely laid to waste.

    The thing is, if the BB film was made after The Last Failure, then that question would not only not need to be answered, but Steinfeld could be kept on as Bee's human partner.
     
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  9. Galvatross

    Galvatross Online Fandoms Suck! Veteran

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    And even then, I still prefer the later comics and their characters to the earlier ones.

    I'm not saying anyone who prefers the earlier ones is wrong either. I just think there's nothing wrong with switching up the casts from time-to-time.

    You might actually like what my idea for Transformers 5 was then. The Autobots and Dinobots remain a small group on Earth. Galvatron is a rogue who maybe has one or two Decepticon allies who realize his true identity. The Creators want to infiltrate the factions by sending the captured, corrupted, and controlled Knights to infiltrate the remnants factions and destroy them from the inside. You'd have Optimus captured in space, then used as a Quintesson puppet to turn on Earth's Autobots. Since the Creators didn't realize Megatron survived as a head and then Galvatron, they created a Knight Megatron, a "Nemesis Megatron" of sorts to send to Earth and a few more planets on the way to Earth to gather remaining Decpeticons only to turn on his troops. "Megatron" would find Cyclonus and a few others on Chaar, then bring them to Earth. A debate would arise between Galvatron and "Megatron": both would claim they were the real Megatron. Most of the Decepticons would side with "Megatron" given Galvatron's appearance and abilities. Then "Megatron" turns on the Decepticons. Cyclonus returns to Galvatron for help. Galvatron battles "Megatron" and slays the impostor. He would then beat up Cyclonus and the surviving Decepticons who doubted him in true Season 3 fashion before finding Optimus Prime, who is fighting his own Autobots, perhaps alongside a giant, corrupted Knight or two.

    Galvatron vs. "Megatron." Optimus and other Knights vs. Autobots and Dinobots. Optimus vs. Galvatron. Optimus gets freed from his spell with Galvatron's help, so they leave on good terms on at least this day. It could be a fascinating Transformers story, and at the very least it would result in some great robot action.

    One thing I'd like to see done in Transformers fiction is see how robots who have been on Earth for centuries react to the deaths of generations of human and potentially animal friends. They've seen their Autobot comrades die, but how would robots with much longer lifespans than humans seeing many organic beings they feel close to over decades, centuries, or millennia affect them as sentient beings? That would be thing I would love to see tackled in some Transformers fiction in the future.
     
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  10. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    I think it's time to say this.... In regards to the use of the word 'Failure'

    'Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is.'

    You can thank master Yoda for saying that.
     
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  11. LTprime98

    LTprime98 Well-Known Member

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    If you really had too you could do it with the Bumblebee movie , but start out where TlK left off , you could have prime narrate the introduction "our original leaders the Primes Quintessa being one of them created the Cube and with it our race was born , And with any race it needs it's protectors ....the Knights , we were supposeed to follow the Primes examples , to fight and thrive for our world , but one of our Leaders was filled with rage and thirst for power , Quintessa the great deceiver turned one of our leaders against us ,The Fallen, feeding him lies saying he and only he should be the leader of our world and only he should bare The Matrix of leadership , a key for our survival and chooser of the next Prime , The Fallen was weak and fell in Quintessas lies , he and the rest of the primes battled and exiled the fallen , and the rest of the Primes sacrificed themselves to protect the Matrix so it would not fall in the wrong hands , This was her plan all along , she knew her brothers would leave her to Lead , since she was the last Prime she took over Cybertron and created her own weapon , a staff , a weapon that held the power to control and suck the energy of other world's , But the knights knew this was bad and took it and escaped and left Megatron and I the two youngest Knights to protect our world , with little to no power Quintessa fled in search of her staff , Megatron and I had no memory of this , we were young , grew up as brothers together we would live among our people but , Megatron fell in the hands of evil, becoming an apprentice of The Fallen ,

    After this we move on to the future showing glimpses of the other movies like flashbacks

    But now we are in trouble , Quintessa is back and mad because I am the only Knight to bare the Matrix of leadership the last Prime , I have to ensure the survival of our race , she has awoken Unicron and he is going to destroy Cybertron , the only way to fix this is to go back and fix things , I will have to send back one of my youngest Autobots back in time hopefully giving us a second chance , then the bumblebee logo appears
     
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  12. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    Hmm, it sounds interesting.
    I seriously never ever undertand, why the story must return to Cybertron at all - it was destroyed in DOTM. Should Creators have their own planet?
     
  13. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    They are going to ignore it in the next movie as much as each successive movie has been ignoring ironclad facts from one to the next, so no biggie. The plot is mostly a mess from the begining who is going to complain anyway?
     
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  14. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    It honestly isn't as hard as people make it seem. Have Quintessa not be the actual creator of transfomers, she's a "great deceiver". Make her just one of the original 13, add something along the lines of:
    Primus created the original 7, BUT one fell and wanted to destroy earth (unicron) and the others wanted to spare earth because of humanity, so after all of the 6 brothers of the fallen died to hide the matrix, primus made 6 more primes (one happens to be quintessa, which also explains the more human appearance due to maybe primus viewing humanity). Or have only that 7 primes went to earth and the rest of the 13 stayed on cybertron, who knows multiple explanations possible. Anyway, Maybe make her either like/into/side with the fallen or make them enemies who knows that part doesn't matter.
    Say the actual Quintessons/Creators (whom quintessa derives her name from) started "making" actual transformers after finding the allspark maybe millions of years ago.
    Say that there were multiple factions of knights and the guardian knights are completely different then the dinobots (who were around when the creators were around) who are also completely different from knights from the likes of Optimus/Megatron/Sentinel who are the most modern cybertronian version of the different sub groups of knights.
    Make Lockdown work for the ACTUAL creators/quintessons so in context it makes more sense that he always talks about them in multiple rather then just "creator". Also helps explain the whole dinobot's being forgotten scenario with Quintessa.
    Make it so the race of transformers is millions of years old, however the more recent stuff IS NOT. Make Prime and Megatron much younger then compared to the older transformers (hell you could even make the fallen young if he was on earth in 17,000 or whatever BC) and just say they are a few thousand years old not millions (because then they are still super ancient but not as ancient as the other TF's or the other Prime's and Megatron's in different continuities).

    Have the REAL Creators be an actual threat along with Quintessa, Megatron, and now Unicron (different threats for different sequels).

    STOP having Megatron side with a bigger threat, we DO NOT need another Megatron reformatting, he already was Galvatron WE DON'T NEED IT AGAIN. Make a throw away line of Quintessa reformatting him back to his normal cybertronian abilities. Have him side by himself, make him more menacing. Hell, maybe have him kick quintessa's ass or something after she tells him how to kill Unicron or whatever, makes him seem more menacing and then you could kill off a waste of a character like Quintessa super easily.

    Mention KSI, bring back the non sentient transformers and have them battle real transformers, BUT MAKE THEM ORIGINAL CHARACTERS, do NOT make them known characters unless they are trying to revive old characters like they did with Megatron, and have them be non sentient as in just drones if they are not a revived character.

    Get rid of the humans and focus more on a TF centered plot with a smaller cast so the budget can be used on the TF's more and less big explosions and giant cybertron's crashing into earth.

    Have all these crazy stories from the previous 5 movies be interwoven through complex secnarios but still make logical sense like I just did. It is not that hard to fix these things, fact is studio's are just too lazy to fix them besides "time travel/ reboot". Like look what I just did, in my free time I just typed up in 20 min a solution to fixing the entire live action universe's problems and 13 people in a room for 1 month couldn't do that. Besides I find it WAY more interesting to have established continuity (even IF BAD CONTINUITY) then another reboot, because we can still connect to the characters easier because we have known them for so long. That's why Logan was so great, it didn't break really major continuity, it was a self contained story with a character we have grown to love, but above ALL ELSE. It was a great movie. And if Paramount just made a great TF movie, the same reception would be given even if it didn't make sense continuity wise.
     
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  15. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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  16. Super Bumblebee

    Super Bumblebee Autobot

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    It's really a difficult task at this point to try and remove a whole movie from continuity without confusing the audience, especially with the whole lingering Unicron plotline. Some movies (like Superman Returns) were able to pull this off by waiting a long period of time, so the audience has time to forget a certain movie. TLK just came out, so it would be difficult to pull this off without rebooting completely or waiting a good 5- 10 years.
     
  17. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    They could always just ignore it.

    We've seen Bay ignore previous film characters and or plotlines (like how did we go from Galvatron to Megatron?). Besides, that's what Paul Anderson did with Resident Evil. The Final Chapter contradicted a gigantic portion of that series' previous films.
     
  18. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    I would literally ignore TLK and start off again where AOE left off. Just like Superman Returns and the Exorcist 3 ignored their previous sequels, TLK would literally be replaced and vanished from the series as if it didn't happen. I'd even tell the press that I am literally ignoring TLK and just starting back to where AOE left off. I would still like to keep Anthony Hopkins, explore the Knight theme with the Dinobots, and I would still like to keep Quintessa somehow. But that would be about it. Might still keep Unicron though. Honestly, Unicron being Eartn validates the Fallen wanting to destroy it, as well as using Earth's resources to rebuild Cybertron. That works and ties the films. Everything else, however, totally screws the continuity over.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  19. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    I think that's why a bunch of people hate TF5, because despite AoE being a pile of bullshit, people somehow expected there to be a direct linear plot because of that stinger (except OH WAIT THEY IGNORED THAT GENERIC 'CREATORS' NONSENSE ALL TOGETHER).
     
  20. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Yup. AoE was pretty much writing an epilogue for the first "trilogy" and planting the seed for the new one. Bayverse fans pretty much expected it being followed in any manner.
     
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