'this isn't G1' is such an over used and unnecessary cliche. A lot of the elements of Bayformers take a lot for other TF series, including G1.
Well since Megan Fox isn't going to be in Transformers 3, that would be reason enough.

 

Aside from both being males, father and son I see no similarities between Ron & Sam and Sparkplug & Spike.

What about Rad, Carlos and Verity Chase?

 

So somehow all 4 having the last name of "Witwicky" doesnt strike you as a similarity????

Besides that you have Samss relationship with Bumblebee being very similar to that of Spike and Bumblebee.

None have the last name of "Witwicky".

 

That's pretty much it though.

G1 Spike (cartoon) embraced the Transformers. He wanted to learn from them and be actively involved with their adventures. Movieverse Sam never really wanted anything to do with them, and was quick to abandon them once he got the girl and then later moved to college. The G1 relationship between Spike and BB was a true friendship where the characters conversed and grew as characters as they became friends. The movieverse relationship is pretty much a Boy and his transforming dog that helps him gets chicks and occasionally saves his life.

Sam's dad is pretty much just comic relief, and contributes little to the series. Sparkplug helped to repair and maintain the Autobots along Ratchet. Besides being the Boy's father and last name being Witwicky, the characters are hardly related.

Yeah, they're connections, but they're pretty superficial connections. I'd hardly call them updates.

 

You're really digging your heels in there bud. Sam is Spike. Ron is Sparkplug. They're just updated.

To just say "movieverse is not G1" is not entirely true to the essence of the situation. It is G1 inspired in its core concepts and that includes key characters. Minutia like Carlos, Rad, and Verity Chase are just a strawman to hold up the argument.

 

Pretty much everything in these movies is superficial.

 

Pretty much, yeah.

 

And nothing else is required.

Like I said "inspired" by not exact interpretations.

I'm not sure I completly agree.

Sure Sam was pretty much as you describe in the 2nd film, but not in the first.

He seemed quite interested in TF's and BB in the first film.

I dont recall calling them updates.

 

If you contextualize them to their eras, they seem to be updates. All we know about Spike and Sparkplug is that they wear hard hats. Obviously they're mechanically inclined and working class - they could be contractors, oil rig workers, nearly anything heavy duty.

Making working class Spike into upper-middle class Sam makes more sense for your average teen in 2007.

 

Well, Sam's initial reaction to BB (from afar) was total fear and panic. Not much wonder involved, and once the chase aspect started, he had no other choice but to sit back and listen. I agree that once he met Prime it wasn't total disinterest, but (at least to me) he never approached the sense of wonder and awe that Spike had after he met the Transformers.

Sorry, that was edit that I picked up from another post. Just mussing out loud.

That would work if there weren't also a lot of middle-to-upper teens in the 80s. I think re-imaging would be a more apt description.

 

True enough.

 

This argument is interesting. We have lots of fans who, every time someone compares G1 Optimus Prime to BW Optimus Primal, insist that they're separate characters in spite of a very strong similarity in names - four syllables and 11 characters are identical. And in that case it's obvious that Hasbro/Kenner even intended them to fill exactly the same spot - as the leader of the good guys. Yet we insist on keeping Prime and Primal apart.

In the case of the Witwickys the connection is weaker. Yes, the surname is identical, but the first names differ. That's only a 50% similarity. After the surname, the second strongest indication is that the Witwickys are father and son. But an interesting complication here is that both father and son have the same surname. And so do their relatives of course. I seem to remember that IDW's Movie Prequel actually spoke of some 7-8 different Witwickys that the Decepticons had to track down before they finally found the right one, so these relatives do exist.
I'm deliberately being difficult here, but with so many Witwickys, how can anyone be certain that Sam is the direct match for Spike, and Ron is the direct match for Sparkplug? It's equally possible that Spike and Sparkplug matches some of the other relatives. Maybe Spike is Sam's cousin. Or suppose for example that I argue that Ron corresponds to Spike, and that Sam matches Daniel! Yes, it's a silly thought, but one could argue that there's just as much evidence for this idea as there is for the idea that Sam matches Spike.

Let's move on to other continuities for a moment. Let's say that we accept that Sam and Ron are inspired by Spike and Sparkplug and actually fill the same type of roles. Then I guess the same must be true for the comic book characters: William Irving "Sparkplug" Witwicky matches the cartoon's Sparkplug, and consequently Ron Witwicky as well. And Sam not only matches Spike, but Buster Witwicky too. After all, William Irving and Buster are father and son Witwicky who befriends the Autobots, so they fill the pattern too.
How comfortable are we with this thought? Are Sam, Buster and Spike the same character? In that case, I guess Buster's girlfriend Jessie must correspond to Carly too?...


No, I don't think the similarities are that strong. While the Witwicky father and son combos fill similar positions in their respective continuities, in that they're often among the first human characters to encounter the Transformers, they are just as different as characters as Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal. And if we don't expect Optimus Primal to mirror everything that Optimus Prime is, I don't think we should expect the Witwickys or their acquaintances to be exact mirrors either. Maybe Sam Witwicky gets a new girlfriend in the upcoming movie, but that doesn't make that girlfriend into Carly. Or Jessie for that matter...

 

Excellent post, and great call on the Prime/Primal argument.

 

I really hope this doesn't sound rude here but......I really dont see the point behind your post here.

As I said before, Spike and Sparkplug were the "Inspiration" for Sam and Ron, just as Optimus Prime was the "Inspiration" for Optimus Primal.

But that in no way means they are the same characters....so why compare this debate to one your bringing up???
.

Your point being???

I never said any of them were the same characters.

I said Spike and Sparkplug were the "Inspiration" for Sam and Ron.

And since you brought it up, Buster was indeed the comic book counter part to the cartoons Spike.

It wasnt till late in the G1 Marvel comic run that we finally got a character named Spike.

I never spoke about the "strengths" of any similarities.

I simpley pointed out that they exsist.

Further more how strong a similarity is, is completely a matter of perspective that differes from person to person.

 

^ She's a brunette?  

Still... meh.. 

 

The only Carly I ever met was a drunk. She drank like a fish on payday.

 

While Ron and Sam are adaptions of Sparkplug and Spike, Mikaela Banes has NOTHING in common with Carly, other than being the "girlfriend".

Mikaela is the girl from the wrong side of the tracks. Carly was a genius and an MIT student.

Carly is much closer in character to Maggie Madsen.