id & Valve assets in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by drippy, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
  2. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    Damn, talk about getting caught with your pants down.
     
  3. Draven

    Draven Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Posts:
    23,860
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    286
    Likes:
    +5
    Yikes. That's pretty damning.
     
  4. pscoop

    pscoop Dead inside

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Posts:
    5,449
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +7
    Didn't it take them a really long time to finish this game too. Looks like the shortcuts didn't work out so well for them.
     
  5. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Years. And it was scaled back.
     
  6. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,871
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +1
    Well, at least they didn't steal gameplay from existing games (something that virtually every FPS these days is guilty of). Now I need to go get this game before the suits take it off the shelves or some stupid thing.

    Also, how is it known that these are not just placeholder textures that were used in development and got overlooked for the final thing. Are they actually used in the game?
     
  7. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Is using someone else's work only in the development process more acceptable than using someone else's work in both the development process and the final product?
     
  8. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,871
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +1
    Yes. They're called placeholders. It allows you to get a rough idea of what you're doing while your texture artists create the many thousands of textures that are going to be used in the game.
     
  9. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    So it's common practice to use these placeholders that belong to someone else? I find it hard to believe that there aren't legal issues associated with doing something like that. I know I wouldn't want someone using stuff that I've created without my permission or without being compensated.
     
  10. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Posts:
    11,549
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    I would assume that, in the course of the game's development, some of these placeholder textures may be left in a folder that, later on down the road of the development, arbitrarily get deemed important and may not get revisited when all of the game files and folders are compacted into the installation package. I mean, lots of random, unused stuff has made it into the game files for plenty of different games over the years. I'm reminded of all the C&C: Tiberium Sun random texture and voxel files that showed up in Red Alert 2.

    ...however, the difference there is that, obviously, all that Tiberium Sun stuff was in-house, so if they left placeholder voxel vehicles or textures in there for testing, they weren't stealing other people's shit.
     
  11. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong. TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    23,698
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Location:
    Beneath the Loft, London, UK
    Likes:
    +1,620
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    When I was a games designer we used other peoples textures all the time.

    Obviously by the time the finished level was produced Everything was replaced by the artists.

    My suspicion is that the Stalker team were using these textures are placeholders, and someone fucked up, leaving them in place accidentally.

    My reckoning is there'll be patch, change the textures, and no harm done.
     
  12. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    I'm having a really hard time grasping the concept that using someone else's work without permission or without compensation is harmless.
     
  13. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong. TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    23,698
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Location:
    Beneath the Loft, London, UK
    Likes:
    +1,620
    Ebay:
    Twitter:
    I agree, but I think its common practice to use placeholder textures.

    Most places would have their own library of crap textures, but well, STalker is a PC game and maybe the developers don't have that resource?

    I really think this will just blow over.
     
  14. misterd

    misterd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Posts:
    3,700
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Back in the days when movies didn't have CG animatics, rough FX sequences were done using toys and dolls in place of the final models and actors. I'm not sure how this is any different.
     
  15. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Someone had to buy the toys and dolls at the store didn't they?
     
  16. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Posts:
    10,535
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +136
    And presumably someone had to buy the game they borrowed placeholder textures from. Your point?
     
  17. drippy

    drippy is a freethinker.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,642
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    I was trying to make the connection between having to compensate someone for the use of their product. I had not considered that probably the makers of STALKER purchased their copies of Doom 3 and Half Life 2.

    That being said, I guess we could just delve straight into copyright law.

    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what

    No permission (compensated or not) = illegal. Better?
     
  18. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Posts:
    10,535
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +136
    There are uses that are generally considered fair. We can only record television programs because of fair use, for example. Generally speaking, as long as it can't be argued that potential compensation has been lost, the use is acceptable.

    Hasbro is known to have used kitbashed models and photoshopped illustrations for mock-ups to pitch ideas for new Transformers. I'm given to understand that this is generally common practice in the toy industry. Why don't they get sued? Because the end product does not involve whatever copyrighted work was used as a placeholder. The company isn't profiting directly from the borrowed work, and no potential profit has been lost to the owner of the example material.

    The same applies to working on a game. If the level designers haven't got all the textures they need yet, they have to use a placeholder. As long as the final textures are an original work and the placeholders don't make it into the final game, then there's nothing wrong. After all, copyright allows you to use what you've paid for however you want, just so long as you don't spread it to other people or sell it as your own work. The only problem here is that the textures seem to have been released with the final product. Our government and the people who profit from copyrighted works are both generally less uptight about copyrights than you seem to be. Don't presume to lecture me on the topic as if I don't know what I'm talking about. The reality is quite the opposite.
     
  19. BMGFX

    BMGFX Awesome Spooner Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Posts:
    3,467
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    Whoops! That kind of reminds me when I found some of my graphics in NHL 07 for PC.
     
  20. Toonces

    Toonces Domo

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Posts:
    307
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    I hear ya. This happened to me as well, (not an EA game, but another well known publisher) but I had given them permission to use the models in a couple games prior to having discovered them in another release.

    Anyway, as some of you have already stated, texture artists will generally either whip up a placeholder on their own, or borrow one from another game they made and therefore already have the rights to. I'm not supprised they "borrowed" some textures at all as I know a bunch of designers who have done this as well.

    Of course they eventually replaced the graphics with their own work.
     

Share This Page