I Think We All Need A Reality Check...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by AnimatedFan, Jul 16, 2009.

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  1. firehawc_69

    firehawc_69 cloppers = ignore list

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    For what it's worth, I loved this paragraph:
    But I loved this one even more:
     
  2. LordOptimus

    LordOptimus Prime

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    My thought exactly. What's the point?

    Some just put too much thought into this kind of thinking. Really, it's this kind of subject that reveals the unecessary irrelavance of "Why even bring it up? Who cares, just go on with your life and forget about it."
     
  3. LordOptimus

    LordOptimus Prime

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    Who wouldn't like to see that? I think it's possible, because i, for instance, am proof of it. I do agree that all would be nice if everyone could be the same in positivity. There are some, including me, out there that show it. I believe in it, and I therefore display it. That's part of my philosophy. :) 
     
  4. MagnusPrimal

    MagnusPrimal Well-Known Member

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    :bowdown: 

    I think I love you.
     
  5. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    So, in a nutshell:

    You are to like what is handed to you and offer no criticism. Your opinions can only be of the *correct* nature.

    Dissenting views can leave. Besides, if you don't like what Hasbro blesses you with- if you don't like Transformers- then this hobby may not be for you. So leave. Only true fans should populate the fandome.
     
  6. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I find it a bit hard to be grateful or even positive about Transformers at the moment.

    I watched the movie but it just wasn't my sort of entertaining. The toys just don't have the look I like for my collection. The movie Autobots all seem super powerful and Decepticons only seem to show up to get killed so I just don't find the characters interesting like in other eras of Transformers. I've given it the good old college try but the movie universe just isn't appealing to me.

    So if I'm bit grumpy it's because we went from an age or choice to an age of nothing but movie related until the Fall of 2010. Rather hard to be all excited and positive when you've got such a long period where there is nothing new that is appealing.

    If something floats my boat then yea I'm more than happy to say good job movie people or good job Hasbro. The Shipwreck figure for Rise of Cobra kicks all sorts of butt since it's got a new Polly and good old Shipwreck could easily fit into a Movie, 25th or even a Resolute collection. I've also said good job Hasbro with the 4" Marvel figures they have been putting out for their Marvel Universe line.

    Just don't expect me to be all Mister Sunshine if a line doesn't have something that appeals to me.
     
  7. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    As a person of your age, you should be able to see things from a long-term perspective, instead of a 'no-instant-gratification = sad mood'.

    Some years ago, I couldn't even spot 1 single TF in toystores.

    Someone might not like any aspect of anything movie related but it still adds more to the franchise than it detracts.

    The companies get more income for marketing, distribution & the movie toys challenged them in terms of engineering ; interpreting Cgi shapes into viable toys..and last but not least ; expanding the fanbase, moreso than shrinking it.

    These are positive longterm factors. Evolution & growth come with growing pains. That's life.
    Sticking to a purist, elitist & conservative state of mind is a reactionary
    thing which adds nothing to this world, other than a negative vibe, vicious circle.

    Transformers is and should be the epitome of change.

    I came back to the franchise after 20 years since my childhood and I think it's sad to see people of my age ( 31 ) turned into reactionaries who have allowed themselves to become so narrow & purist...while a kid in some poor country has to make it's own toy, from stuff found in the local junkyard.
     
  8. AnimatedFan

    AnimatedFan Banned

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    *reads all*

    Hmm.

    *cracks knuckles*

    *sighs*

    Here we go...

    Which is fine. Even if people don't like the current incarnation of TFs, the least folks could do is be patient and wait for Universe 3.0 to return and whatever new series is yet to come along.

    Even with me being a fan of ROTF, I'll admit that it's hard to swallow that everything was put on hold in favor of this toyline and movie. I love Universe 2.0, I love Animated, and I thank Hasbro for giving those to us.

    I realize we show our gratitude in buying the products, but they're receptive to our feedback, and it's been shown by the fact that they have given us homage figures/characters, reissues, etc.

    They do listen, they don't always do what we ask of them (and reasonably they can't), but they usually find a way to give us what we want, and sometimes things we didn't even expect.

    I'm not saying they're a bunch of superheroes or anything even remotely silly like that. It just wouldn't be a terrible thing to say "Hey, this is like being a kid again, thanks."

    I'm not saying anyone is wrong for having a negative opinion. I still have negative opinions about the handling of Animated and Universe 3.0, plus how the movies turned out. I'm not looking at this through rose colored glasses by any means, but I can at least look around my collection, watch the movies, the cartoons, and realize "No, it ain't perfect, but it's been 25 years. I have to give them some credit."

    By all means, have the opinion you wish to have, but don't let blinding nerdrage and hatred keep you folks from seeing that we're lucky to have our TFs and whatever other childhood memories come to life now.

    We're getting the chance to relive our youth, and now a new generation will get to do the same, and we might even be able to connect with them. Isn't that something special?

    So you don't like ROTF? Fine. At least be grateful that Hasbro's still making these toys. And regardless of whether or not you folks like the movies, you have to admit that they've revitalized the brand, put new life in it, and made way for new audiences. People who wouldn't have given TFs a second thought before, are now falling in love with the characters and word of mouth leads to others falling in line. And this is happening all over the world.

    We have arrived, finally. On that alone, we should say "I can't believe we finally made it. This is great! Thanks!" That doesn't have to change your opinion of the movies or the toys, it's just a respectable nod towards HasTak for 25+ years of bringing us what we want. (and unfortunately even some of what we don't.)

    But even the non-fans are becoming fans. Our fandom couldn't make that big of a dent in toy sales, it's impossible. That tells you that kids are buying them first and foremost, but that the non-fans are even starting to embrace the characters and the toys. Hell, how many posts do you see from people saying: "I saw the movie, loved it. Went to the store, looked at the toys and bought one for old time's sake. It's rekindled my interest and now I've got all the movie figures and I'm interested in the older ones again, too." I can't tell you how many times I've read things like that. I've lost count.

    And it's not accurate to say that TFs are made for the non-fan. They're a toyline aimed at kids first and foremost, you mean to tell me those kids buying the toys aren't fans? I don't know of any kid that would buy a toy he or she wasn't a fan of. You buy what you like, and this holds true even for children. Why would an adult, a kid, anybody buy into something they don't like? Even a casual fan is considered a fan.

    Oh, and most of us started in TFs when we were kids, and look at us now. I've been a fan from the beginning, and many others share the same experience as well.

    TFs made for non-fans? Hardly.

    And you're right, some of us (not all) do care *too* much for it. Some of us can handle it just fine.

    Exactly. I've done it, I'm the first to tell you I've had moments of absolute senselessness over TFs, and it's silly. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and have done something stupid.

    I've also come to learn that my bitching and moaning is pointless, and just a waste of energy. So I'm working, from this point on, to having a more positive outlook wherever possible and try and find the best in the situation and let the little things slide as much as possible.

    But we do live in a golden age. We're able to relive our youth, and fully enjoy it this time because we can see it as it is, right in front of us, with the added impact that hindsight has. And now we can connect with a new generation of fans, and people we never thought we'd ever be able to connect with.

    The movies weren't perfect, but they brought people of all walks together, and now the non-fans get it. And for once, we TF fans have a cool factor. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

    If a movie can take you to such depths that it makes you want to self-inflict a wound upon yourself, then perhaps you're missing the point, and taking it waaay too seriously. This post reminds me of the critics and their rather silly hatred for a MOVIE. They took it waaay too seriously. It's *JUST* a movie. Don't like it? Fine. Just don't raise your blood pressure over it.

    "What are you in the E.R. for?"

    "I saw a movie."

    "Oh I'll bet that sonuvabitchin' thing kicked your puppy!"

    "Damn straight it did! Fucking movie! I HATE IT! I'm gonna go find the closest projector and kick the shit out of it for playing it!"

    "Yeah!"

    You don't have to be deeply cynical. It's your right to do so, and you're more than welcome to it, but you don't have to be. "We are who we choose to be."

    No one's asking you to do cartwheels. While it wasn't worded perfectly, the intent of my post was to remind all of us that we should be thrilled and exhilarated that we get to be kids again, even if only for a little bit. And yes, thankful that we're getting the chance to do just that.

    And as for TFTM, the soundtrack was better, I'll give you that. You could make out what was going on the screen, I'll give you that too. The rest of the film, however, makes TF07 and ROTF look like Titanic and it's sweeping Oscar wins compared to that animated dreck.

    I don't see how anyone could be sentimental over that piece of trash, I really don't. However, it's a piece of trash in MY opinion. You're welcome to see it as you see fit. You prefer it? Great, good for you. Just don't be surprised that people's povs are completely reversed on this issue.

    There was no argument intended. And that's the honest truth.

    Nope. Been here in the fandom since '84. I've seen the ups and downs, the shows, comics, toys, movies, etc.

    And this is exactly the point of my post. Thank you, glad someone got it and capably put in layman's terms. (cuz I damn sure didn't get it right, obviously.)

    No one's saying you have to buy it or like it. Just the fact that TFs are still around and we're getting a second chance to relive the heydays is something to be thankful for. It's an awesome sight to see TFs, G.I. Joe, TMNT, Batman, etc. It's like a time machine, and this time we're old enough to fully appreciate the impact that has.

    And I'm sincerely saddened that people were left behind in favor of the almighty buck. I really am. I don't like it when I think of Animated and Universe getting shitcanned. However, the silver lining still remains. The remainder of Animated will be released, Universe is returning. A little bit of patience will pay off in the end.

    It also doesn't help that the economy crashed and burned either. Animated and ROTF were supposed to be main lines and run concurrently with one another, including new releases. If the economy hadn't become shit, and the retailers weren't such dicks, Animated would be fresh and filled with new figures instead of clearanced old stock weighing down the pegs and shelves as we speak.

    However, 2010 shows us that we'll have multiple options once more. And by the time TF3 rolls around, the economy might even rebound, which will allow retailers and Hasbro to indulge us a bit more.

    I have a feeling it'll be worth the wait.

    My intention was never to argue. And yes, we all need one of these.

    There's nothing wrong with you liking or disliking something. You don't have to like everything that's handed to you. But the fact that they're still handing us the goods after 25 years is something to be grateful for. Especially when we finally get a G1 Ironhide and Ratchet worth a damn. That's a sign that Hasbro has listened and thanks us for our participation for the past 25 years. I didn't pay enough attention to the little things like that, I took other little things, petty things, and made them big and focused totally on the negative. No, not everything is perfect, and there are quite a few negatives in the TF world currently, but we should at least be positive. The good stuff (depending on your point of view) is right around the corner.

    But it does matter. If TFs weren't bankable, they would stop making them. No matter how much input we give. They wouldn't attend Botcon and show us new product and answer the fans questions. The movies being popular and bankable gave Hasbro more money and more options for the future, and definitely the continuation of TFs as a whole.


    Excellent post.

    Disneyland and Mousketeer zone, eh? No. If that were true, I wouldn't have to read posts like this.

    I don't know if you're addressing me or maninthebox, but I can tell you that my post was not intended to cause a fight. I had no intention of ill will with this post. I was hoping to appeal to the good nature in everyone and hopefully they'd see a silver lining too.

    I know, I know. "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" Still doesn't change the fact that they were GOOD intentions.

    That's not what I said at all. And I didn't tell anyone to leave. Twisting words is one of the biggest trouble makers here on the boards. So here's an idea, don't do it. And I don't believe in true/untrue fans. That's just silly.

    And no one does. You have excellent points in this thread, I'm not going to say you're wrong at all.

    I was thinking more along the lines of "Us + New Golden Age = Awesome."
     
  9. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Dude, it isn't the films that are making me angry, it's self-righteous people telling me that shit films are in some way a good thing. I'm getting very tired of this creeping facism demanding we all accept stuff we don't like. Films can be better, they should be better. And so what if the films are bringing in new people? Whilst I appreciate the economic benefits to Hasbro, and the toy-collecting benefits to us, I think the "fandom" (god, how I normally hate that term) suffers from an influx of people thinking a movie full of leg-humping robots, mechanical testicles and pointless explosions was the best film ever.

    Is that harsh? Yes. Would I normally even say that? No. But seeing as you claim we live in a "golden age," I think it's worth looking at. The sort of people who loved loved LOVED ZOMG TEH AWSUM these films (and no, I'm not including everyone who enjoyed the films in this. It should be pretty clear what sort of people I'm referring to) are people I'm ashamed to be associated with. People who are comparing Roger Ebert to Hitler because he didn't like ROTF. People who proclaim that Harry Pothead (hurr hurr :rolleyes: ) sux because there's a film coming out a couple of weeks after ROTF. People complaining about how GI Joe looks terrible for all the same reasons they love ROTF.

    I've never been ashamed of my TF hobby. I've not always enjoyed all aspects of it, but I've never felt the urge to hide it. Now, I'm seeing posts by people that make me think "I'd be so embarrassed if someone outside the fandom saw that." I (said Sledge, who was fond of the personal pronoun and apt to become loquacious when he found it could start a good sentence) know that to some extend it was ever thus. But it seems that these exceptionally low-brow movies are bringing out some low-brow behaviour.

    Again, I'm not saying that everyone who enjoyed the films is a moron. I'm saying that they've brought out some exceptionally stupid behaviour. I don't agree with you, but I can respect your views because you're able to present them properly. Does it not bother you that so many of the most vociferours fans of ROTF can't string a sentence together and are moved to hate other films because they might, in some unexplained way, harm ROTF?
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Change happens which is why I say at the moment. The Transformers brand has changed more than any other toy franchise out there so if you wait long enough something that will catch your interest will come along. Plus if there was never any change at all then I never would have gotten my cool collection of Robot Heroes.

    So at the moment I'm a bit bummed that the shelves are full of Transformers toys but they just don't appeal to me. But it will not stay that way forever so one day there will be toys again that bring back that excitement of I just have to track that figure down because it's so cool.

    Just because I'm a bit bummed though doesn't mean that people shouldn't be enjoying the movie toys and characters if the ascetic is their thing. We all have different tastes so if the movies are your thing then you should go out and enjoy them and not worry if everyone likes them or not. It's just natural that we should all like different things so we should enjoy the things we enjoy instead of worrying about other people liking them as well.

    Ha ha, I collect GI Joe and the 4" Marvel figures so trust I know you can't make every fan happy all of the time no matter how hard Hasbro tries.
     
  11. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We Exist, and We DON'T Want to Date You

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    If you didn't want to start an argument, using words other than 'reality check' right off would have been a good idea.

    A 'golden age' usually means no one goes hungry and everyone has freedom to pursue what they like. IMO, that was the last two years, not this one. I felt like a kid with Animated. I loved the show, and I could go to the toy aisle and find a good selection of that, and Robot Heroes, and Universe, and (at least in 2007) movie figures. But not this year. Yes, we're getting the final figures, but that's tempered by the reminder that the rug was pulled out from under it and the fans who liked it. After the stragglers on the shelves are sold, nothing other than the movie will be around to buy until late 2010 (if that is the date other lines will be re-released - personally I suspect it will be sooner). And if we don't like the movie series (like I don't) or something about it, or don't want to buy the movie toys, or lament that we can't buy something else TF related, etc - we're left out, we 'go hungry'.

    But then being told or implied we ALL HAVE to like something or we're ungrateful, not fans, 'need a reality check', etc., especially if the people being told such have been here for a few months which will give anyone a chance to see the arguments for and against SEVERAL TIMES...I think you can see why the arguments start up so quickly now, regardless of the intention of the original post. People are tired, and hungry.

    --Moony
     
  12. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    So basically you agree with 'life=not status quo'.

    I'm sure there are fans of other things who beg to differ...

    Anyway, what Animatedfan meant was the all or nothing principle.

    I remember times when the stores had the big zero TF situation. Those were unhappy times.

    I know times at this very moment where my fav videogame franchise is less than appealing to me. But I know I am better off not to be bum myself about it too much. It's really the wiser thing to do.

    The point is ; to not let your own self, slide into such narrow levels of tolerance, that it will become very difficult for oneself to even enjoy a slight part of the next version of any franchise you supposedly like.

    I mean... who knows.... the next Big Thing might even annoy you even more than the current one.
     
  13. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I totally agree. If there was never any change at all things would be boring.

    Sure sometimes change means something that's not your thing but sometimes change also means some of the best stuff ever. So I'm not done with Transformers by any stretch of the imagination I'm just waiting to see what's next. Maybe it's something better or maybe it's something worse but there is always that excitement of I wonder what's next.
     
  14. Excelsior Prime

    Excelsior Prime Autobot Leader

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    I will say this only: we do truly live in a Golden Age of Geekitude.

    By this I mean we're seeing all of the things we fans have passionately loved for so long getting a mainstream validation.

    I never imagined that I'd see the movies/series/toys I've seen just in the last eight years or so. It's just amazing stuff.

    Some of it's not so great, but the fact that we have two live action Transformers movies...did you ever dare to dream of that as a kid? How about the fact that the second one, while not perfect, can be easily fixed by a good fan editor?

    Or the fact that we just had an awesome TF animated series, with perhaps the best writing, characterization, and voice work since BW...and in a lot of ways, certainly better than G1 (though I am a "GeeWunner" and grew up with G1, I can still admit this)

    Granted, a lot of the stuff we're getting is missing the mark (G.I. Joe is an easy concept, yet here we have what might be a miss) but for the most part, look at what we have. I never thought I'd have Spider-Man action figures that could pose just like the comics. I never thought I'd have a version of Optimus Prime that is just like G1 but is yet still a toy (Masterpiece). I never thought I'd see any of this stuff.

    So I get it, and I think we fans do have a lot to be thankful for.

    -Prime
     
  15. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    I think you're completely missed my point and have gone onto something else with that. This isn't a question of whether Tranformers are bankable or not....cause they are and have proven to be so since 1996. You say we should be grateful and complain less, but Hasbro doesn't care about our complaining. They have a product that will sell regardless of fan complaints. Sure, they'll listen to some of our complaints with a smile on their face, and they throw homages at us...but all that fits within their business model. It isn't a reward cause we're good little boys and girls. So yeah, complaint away until your face turns blue if you choose. That doesn't matter. Hasbro is not gonna stop making Transformers and they're not gonna punish us because fans bitch, complain, and seem ungrateful. The notion of being grateful for what Hasbro does is just silly. They're a business that caters to their customers. They aren't our parents buying us a toy on the weekly trip to WM cause we're good.
     
  16. Spin-Out

    Spin-Out Well-Known Member

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    I liked the Dark Knight. I liked Star Trek. I liked Transformers '07. But I think ROTF sounds offensive and degrading to the franchise. But the toys are good :D 
     
  17. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I just can't agree with a lot of this thread.

    I do recognize that a lot has been brought to the table, and I think- in large part- it is because of the outspokenness of the fans.

    We had Alternators- a really wonderfull take on classic characters.
    We also had/have Universe Classics- another wonderfull take on classic characters.
    The fans spoke- sometimes passionately, sometimes angrily- and they were heard.

    However, IMO, Alternators quality and creativity went down hill. I quit buying them. yet, you guys would have me say nothing? No input or criticism? Just a simple "shut up- you asked for it and they gave it to you no like it or else"?

    As much as I dig manu Classics / Universe, I personally think many mistakes have been made. I personally would like to say that Galvatron would have been better as a larger class to accomodate its otherwise wonderfull engineering. I would have bought Silverbolt if he was designed to accomodate additional figure attachments. I would buy Inferno and Powerglide if they were a class smaller. Yet again, you would tell me to shut up and like it.

    Now as I have stated earlier I do recognize that a lot has been brought to the table, and I think- in large part- it is because of the outspokenness of the fans. So I have to ask others this:

    Why do you not want more? Why NOT voice negativity in the hopes that it would be heard? Why do you not want improvement?

    Will you always merely be content, to live a vanilla life of blind acceptance... or would you want to go better and better?
     
  18. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

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    Another "you must conform to my likes/dislikes" thread. Yeah, just what we needed.

    Lock?



    Anyone?


    ...still waiting....


    :trolls: 
     
  19. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    It's not the fact that Universe was put on hold for a year,and Animated cancelled,it's the CONSTANT wahh-ing about it. I think at this point,we're all aware that some people think Hasbro should continue to make products for a small,cult following rather than big-selling products. WE GET IT.
    I thought you didn't even watch either of them?
    Not only is that a little overdramatic,it's false. You can't tell me you own EVERY non-movie TF. There's plenty of stuff left for you to collect,I'm sure.
     
  20. kidnicky

    kidnicky Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious? I mean,I agree the kiddy line stuff didn't attempt to look like the actors,but are you seriously saying the 6 inch figures didn't look good enough for you? They're as accurate as any other movie based 6 inch figure I've ever seen. As far as "hundreds of pounds," I can't say how much they were in your country,but here in the U.S,they were only like $12.99,hardly a fortune.
    Those of us who have seen the film are aware that they did just meet through being assigned to the same ship,but the story wasn't really about their meeting,or any of the usual prequel bullshit. It was about trying to stop a madman from destroying Vulcan using time travel,which insured that allthough it took place prior to the other films,nothing was set in stone,since history was altered.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
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