I replayed Lair this weekend...and loved it.

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by Prowl, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    This might be a situation where the ign reviewers might be making a mockery of this whole mess when it's really an effort to keep the slack off them... I gave the game a second chance this weekend... and the reason was this...

    When John Madden came out for PS3 and Xbox, IGN rightfully gave the Xbox 360 version a slightly higher score than the PS3 version because (as has been happening a lot with ports) the PS3 version suffered from a slight framerate drop.

    Last week IGN reviewed Dirt on the PS3 and gave it an 8.4. The PS3 version has been tweaked to have a smoother framerate and look a bit technically better than the 360 version (some developers take the time EA). Yet IGN gave it the same score. I know it's hard for people to believe this, but even paid professionals have biases, and people have agendas. These aren't all adults that always believe in the integrity of their journalism (if there is such a thing). A lot of them are geeks like us that bicker after hours about which is better Robotech or Transformers. The first thing when people hear this is "fanboy" but the logic behind those two reviews can't be denied. Why penalize the PS3 for a crappy framerate in one game but not the 360 when the same happens in reverse.

    The other thing that happened this weekend is that I received my copy of Game Informer, where Lair received a 7.5 and an 8 from two different reviewers. I realize that GI might be bias in another way "let's review all games GOOD so that people will go to Gamestop and buy them" but I have seen my share of bad reviews on there.

    Since I already own the game (and was planning on trading it in for Heavenly Sword) I decided "what the hell" and tried it out again. This time I really went through the tutorial and tried to get past the fact that I hated playing with motion sensing.

    A few hours later I had decided that this game was not going to be traded in.

    The fact is that the framerate is stuttery, but one thing that the sarcastic IGN reviewers don't get is that aside from waving a wand (that in 80% of the games doesn't work right) we aren't used to motion games (and not all games should have them), but given some practice, I found myself not only seriously enjoying lair, but thinking that if the option to play with the stick was offered, I swear to Primus that I would not use it. I really wasn't playing the game right. I was swinging left and right, fighting the controls (like on the Last Starfighter :) ), instead of using the abilities in the Tutorial to find and take out the enemies. I've already beat a couple of levels (much smoother now that I know how to play it), and the Story and Epic battles, as well as some of the insane graphics (that serpent boss with the water sliding off its scales looks Rendered CG) are simply amazing.

    The point it, the IGN reviewer will never take the time, because it goes against the principle of sticking to one's guns (ie. review). But if you look through this board, you will see that I really hated this game when I bought it, but now I plan on playing it until the end, and probably going through it again to unlock some of the combos and extras.

    Honestly, no one cares, especially in the advent of Halo 3, but for those of you guys like Primus who are curious about the game. Give it a rent, and go through every aspect of the tutorial first, no matter how tempted you are to just jump in to the game. It will make the game a helovalot better, and it will present a unique experience unlike any other, even on the Wii (you really start to feel like you are flying this thing, especially when you start ramming the enemy with a swipe of the controller) I would change my score from the initial 5 that I would have given it to a 7.5 or 8 that GI gave it, docking some points because the framerate still sucks sometimes, no matter how anyone looks at it.
     
  2. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    I think the most important thing you've highlighted here is that internet reviews aren't written by professionals. A lot of them are young guys, fresh out of wherever jacking off to whatever floats their boat and getting paid for it.

    I was turned off of the whole reporting scene the year Reggi did his first Press Conference at E3 and there was cheering and whooping and even one guy crying when Zelda was show. Seriously, wtf mate?
     
  3. Primus

    Primus Beware, the modelers. Veteran

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    Very interesting. Thanks for the info. And really, this was a good read. I agree with you 100% on your opinion of those reviewers. Sony would not have sent out that packet unless they honestly thought that the reviews were unnecessarily harsh.

    Still, I will probably wait until the price drops on the game before getting it, but I am going to get it eventually. But with Heavenly Sword coming out this week plus GH3 and Rock Band before the end of the year I doubt I will be playing Lair soon. Unless for some reason I can talk Deefuzz into buying it and letting me borrow it :D 
     
  4. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    I think we should all talk Deefuzz into buying it, and passing it around. :D 
     
  5. DevilzFan

    DevilzFan CobraIsland.com Veteran

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    It should also be noted that seperate people at IGN review games. The same people who review a 360 version of "game a" aren't the same people who review "game a" for the PS3. Another reason why they have varying reviews.

    What you have to realize is that, like movie critics, video game reviewers are just people with their own personality, and their own likes and dislikes.

    When I'm looking for solid info on a game I'm thinking of purchasing, I'll read reviews from multiple sources. IGN, Gamespot, EGM, PCGameword, etc, etc. I won't base my decision to purchase or not from one single review, but read through all of them, then make my decision. Hell, sometimes even a ton of reviews isn't enough to sway my decision.
     
  6. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    That's actually a good point DF. And it has been made by some of the more logical people at IGN, but in this situation IGN copied and pasted the 360 review (of Dirt) (the text aspect of it) and removed the "stuttering framerate" aspect of the review. So whether it was a different reviewer or not, they used the exact same review for the PS3 in this scenario.

    Me personally, I will buy a game that I have been excited about regardless of the reviews (I learned this back in the Genesis days with Herzog Zwie). Form my own opinion.

    And this remindeds me to mention (particularly to Primus). If you can find it, give it a rent. Someone mentioned before that the game has a Love it or Hate is reaction, as could be seen by some of the varying reviews. This is a very true statement.

    I was very undecided about it until I gave it a play this weekend, and now I love it. But it still has the potential of being hated.

    But one thing is for certain. This game is definitely Rogue Squadron on dragons. Even to the point of tripping up giant beasts with "tow cables" ala Empire.
     
  7. Primus

    Primus Beware, the modelers. Veteran

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    I use netflix, so renting games is out of the question. It's not a big deal really. I'll get the game eventually, just not soon. It doesn't seem like the "must have" game they were hoping it would be.
     
  8. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Nah, not must have. The only thing I would definitely say is that some of the graphics are must-see at some point. Defiinitely a discount bin, and if you weren't in St Louis, I'd definitely let you borrow it when I was done with it.
     
  9. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Not to be mean, Windcharger, but reading your posts, you do sometimes come off as a bit of a Sony fanboy. I am not saying you are, but based on your posts, it points to the and the only problem is that it can hurt your credentials as far as trusting your opinion on a Sony product. You are welcome to like Lair, but it's odd that gamers seem to have to work hard to like it.

    EDIT: Just wanted to point that out again, not to be mean because I agree with you on a lot of points, but I am just saying it so that you don't come off in a way you that you don't want to (I don't think you want to be or are a fanboy).
     
  10. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    FANBOYS!

    D:

    NooOoOoo... Windcharger is not a fanboy.
     
  11. pscoop

    pscoop Dead inside

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    Seriously I have heard him saying how much he is looking foward to Mass Effect, no Sony fanboy would ever do that.
     
  12. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Preference, absolutely. But fanboys don't buy other systems. And I have bought them all, though admittedly I have returned my Wii. The reality of it is that my least favorite Genre is the FPS and for the most part that is what the original Xbox was putting out.

    My favorite games of all time are the games that no one plays because the popular titles are all the FPS. Like I mentioned before, Okami, Otagi, Shadow Of Colossus, Ico, Beyond Good and Evil, etc.

    Most of these games came out on the Ps2 (with the exception of Otagi and Beyond which came out also on the Xbox, Otagi being soley on Xbox).

    So my preference, without a doubt has been with Sony's machine because in the past it has attracted the folks who produce most of those "outside of the norm" games, particularly Shadow, Ico and Okami. And in a way, that is still happening now, with Lair, and Folklore on PS3 being far from the popular Genre that would rake in sales, though Folklore is on my top 10 games that I want. 360 is singing a different song this time around, with games like Kameo which are far from being the traditional fair on an MS machine, and Blue Dragon, while not super well recieved is providing some of that element as well. edit: and then there is Viva PiƱata. Not popular at all, but a very unique game in its own rite.

    But I am like a whore when it comes to videogame preferences because my preferences change like the weather here in Texas. And the reality of it is that no game has ever dethrowned my favorite series of all time: Zelda, and that is far from being a Sony product.

    I'm only defending Lair, not because I'm a Sony fan (even though I tend to be), but because another potentially great game is getting slammed because people jumped the gun, like I almost did, and judged it by controls that we weren't ready for. And this is why the next developer will think twice before trying to employ motion controls on a game, and there will never be a sequel to Beyond good and Evil, and Clover has gone under. The next developer that has a unique idea will just throw the developement plans out the window and pick up where Call of Duty left off.

    I'm a fanboy of non-popular games. And that's a bad thing to be because you never end up playing sequels, which in some cases is a good thing, but not always. Okami and Beyond, I hardly knew you.
     
  13. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Well, Lair might be good, it might not. I don't own it. The thing is, I will always sing the praise of a good game no matter what platform. I don't go out of my way to even specify that I care it's on whatever system (except I have a bias against handhelds). And even to your extent, Windcharger, I don't see why even say Sony is so and so better. The PS2 only has innovative games because it had a bigger install basis, not because Sony seeked out these developers to do that. Usually, it's the mainstream titles Sony and MS go out of their way to make some sort of exclusive deal with.

    I give credit to game developers, not the platform they are on, ultimately is what I am saying.
     
  14. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    On that aspect, and please note that this was during the orginal Xbox's time period, and does not speak of them now.

    I worked on the PC game Freelancer. It was a space RPG/shooter with a lot of exploration and a somewhat unique ship-advancing elements. They had talked about porting it over to the Xbox because it would provide some variety to what was out there, and they turned us down because it was not what was popular at the moment.

    Then Level 5 was going to bring that unique MMORPG to the Xbox that I was looking so damn forward to. It had the visual design of Dragon Warrior, but it was an MMORPG, and they canceled funding for it because MS thought it wasn't what people wanted to play right now.

    I have seen many interviews with some developers (no not Sony ball-licking David Chaffe) who say that Sony keeps a very hands-off approach to their developes letting them go with whatever they want to create to try and make something new. That's where things like Sly Cooper and Ratchet come from, but that's also where Okami's come from.. And there have also been instances where the first game of a series doesn't do well, but they still provide the funding for a sequel because they believe in the product.

    So Ps2 did have a bigger install basis, but MS could have had it also if they hadn't limited what their devs could provide for them. They saw games like Grabbed by Ghoulies fail and pulled the plug on a bunch of other similar games. And that's something you can look up. Don't take my word for it.

    But MS has changed their tune a great deal, even letting fans provide game content for them (which is cool as hell). So like I said, I am not defending a company. I am defending a game. I am just defending the fact that a preference of a system based on its game types does not signify a fan boy. And if it does, then I'm a Sega Fanboy for Genesis, SNES fanboy for Actraiser, PS1 fanboy for Vagrant Story, Xbox fanboy for Crimsom Skies, Jaguar Fanboy for Alien Vs Predator, and 3Do fanboy for.... nevermind on that last one.
     
  15. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Again, I don't feel inclined to defend MS on anything. Right or wrong. They as a company, like Sony and Nintendo, have made some asinine decisions. Companys are going to do that. Sony had it's ups and downs with the first PS, not wanting to have developers working on 2D projects and the like (at first), and Nintendo always forged their own path, fan feedback be damned. It's jsut business. I just want good games. How am I to even know if something is good or what I am missing if I never even play them? I don't- but I know I have enjoyed something on each major system, and will happily buy a PS3 when a game I think is great comes out for it.
     
  16. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    You made a good point. I will never forgive Sony for not condoning 2D games on PS1. If they didn't have that attitude then I would still be playing Dungeons and Dragons the Acrade on my PS1. It was on the back of the instruction Manual of a Streetfighter game as coming soon, and was canceled because of that. And it is to this day my favorite arcade. But aside from a PC emulator, the only copy I have is an imported Sega Saturn copy, which is a hassle to play. Now I doubt Capcom has the rights to it, so a port for it will never see the light of day.
     
  17. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Not true, the 2nd game I owned on my PlayStation was a 2D shooter... I also tested shit like Lemmings, Discworld... the list goes on.
     
  18. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    Why would you want to play D+D on a PS? Considering the epic loading times and missing content that CPS-2 ports had on that system, they probably did you a favor in forcing you to buy a Saturn copy and/or wait for an arcade emulator.
     
  19. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Because digging my Saturn out (I still own it for that game and Panzer Dragoon Saga) is a pain in the ass, I don't like sitting in front of my PC to play two player games with a friend (I prefer my big screen and a couch), and the Saturn Copy was never brought here either, so it's a Japanese Copy with Japanese Dialogue, and although it's just an arcade, this game actually lets you choose which paths to take, so knowing the language was somewhat important.

    Anyone know what rules are against Capcom bringing those games to a future collection disc? Same thing with Konami and the Aliens arcades? Are they allowed to do that since it's their game, or do they have to pay for the rights again?

    I know with the Intelevision collection, they had to rename the Dungeons and Dragons game to release it on their disc. I don't care if they call it "Twin Twists and Kickbacks", I just want to play it on my big screen.

    Oh damn, I remember Discword and that other game with the Dragon, shit the name slips my mind, but it was an adventure game ala Monkey Island. Flicker was the main character.
     
  20. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say 2D games didn't get made, I said Sony didn't want developers doing that. That was at least a big thing in the media at the time. Games that were 2D still came out, but Sony didn't care to push those titles.

    EDIT: I would also like to point out that the PS was one of the first big polygon pushing systems, and even if you played a few 2D games (I loved Rayman at the time) it was nothing compared to the systems we had just moved away from, where it was pretty much 2D or Starfox.
     

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