I like Cybertron, but come on...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Darth Megatron, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    I just thought that I would get everybody’s opinion on something that has been bugging me for a while.

    The Cybertron cartoon is ok in my mind. It is somewhat entertaining and is better than Armada and Energon. I liked RID, BW and BM better though. One of the issues that I have with Cybertron (and Energon) was the detail in the animation of the Transformers. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to revert back to G1 style animation, but it seems that the animators took the 3D models from the toy pre production and animated them. For example, in the show OP prime has the little lever on his back used in the toy to bring up his face plate, why is it needed in the show. Does Jetfire have to push it down or up during the super mode sequence? Maybe that’s why it takes so long. It bothers me because the toys should be accurate to the show, not the other way around.
    I think it was nicely done with Beast Wars. Dinobot would have looked ridicules in the show with the big Raptor head on his chest if he was directly made from the toy. Sure I have wanted a show accurate Beast Machines Cheetor, (night attack doesn’t count) but there has to be some compromises between the two. I suppose if the cartoon was written better I would not notice it as much, but like I said, it happened with Energon too and in my mind, nothing could have saved that show.
     
  2. seven

    seven RIP Poopers 4-1993/5-2008

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    Wouldn't that make them not accurate to the show then?
    Doesn't bother me though, since I haven't watched any of the shows but I do prefer them to be identical.
     
  3. Rumble02

    Rumble02 Radicon of Obliticons

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    hhhhhhrrrrrrrmmmm. i did notice the head lever. it is wierd
     
  4. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    They're toy-accurate because unlike BW/BM, these polygon models actually transform, and do it the exact same way the toys do, instead of twisting around and then changing the character model like BW and BM did. CG has also progressed to the point that it's possible to make the toys have every last detail they do on the toys, which I'm amazed you have a problem with.

    Beast wars bugged the hell out of me because of the lack of toy-accuracy until they got to transmetals.

    Gonzo does take liberties with the designs though. their faces (except for guardshell and flame convoy) look better than the toys, and the proportions on a lot of characters (like nitro convoy) have been fixed up a lot.

    Energon had pretty-toy accurate CG models as well (too acurate, in fact), but as they proved time and time again, they couldnt animate them for shit. it was pretty annoying to see every character's facial expressions limited to mouth movements.

    This cancels itself out. it doesnt mean anything. its like your arguing that a painting of someone looks too much like them.

    The only way I think this "argument" would make any sense was if the CG models had screws, pins, and hollow spaces just like the toys.
     
  5. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Toys first. Always. Always.
     
  6. Soundwarp

    Soundwarp Next victim please TFW2005 Supporter

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    Where does Prime's trailer go in G1? :confused2 

    :lol  Sorry man i just stopped asking questions a long time ago because i never see any answers :D 
    But i totally get what your saying.
     
  7. Renidragon

    Renidragon Toys on my table!

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    I disagree. I think, in general, the faces on the toys look much better in most cases, like Hot Shot and Mudflap off the top of my head. On the other hand, there are some who DO look better in the cartoon - Override, Evac and Thundercracker come to mind.

    But it's all a matter of opinion on that, I guess.
     
  8. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    I don't know for certain, But I would assume that the 'animators' have taken that exact details from the toy production stills. Too me it seams that Hasbro / Takara has this attitude that as long as the product says Transformers the fans will be happy. And it is not like I don't like the detail, but in this case the 'detail' was a conscience of Hasbro/Takara cutting corners on production of this show. I am no CGI animator, but I would think that Has/Tak would have online CGI models used for design. These exact models were likely used to produce the characters in the show, so instead of getting the animators to do new cgi models they cut corners with the ones that look exactly like the toy.
    It doesn't cancel it self out. The toys should mirror the show in that the small little intricacies should not be seen on the show ie plastic tab. The show is about large robotic being from another planet that have come to save the world from certain doom, not about action figures that have jumped off the toy shelf, thrown into a pretend universe acting as a 30 min commercial geared towards selling toys. I want show accurate toys, but not at the expense of the story line that surrounds them. After all, one of the best parts of action figures, be it transformers, gi joe or starwars is the ability to play out the story line.
     
  9. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    No. Hasbro and Takara have said time and time again that they dont use computers to design the toys. also, there are tons of differences in the models and the toys if you're paying any kind of attention. you're just wrong on this account. the toy and the CG models are NEVER exactly alike. they used the toys and different production art as a basis for the models, which they made from scratch.

    as for the lever on the back of galaxy convoy's head, its just one little detail, but its a valid complaint, so I can respect that.

    How does the style of the CG models influence the storyline at all?
     
  10. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    Agreed.
     
  11. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    For this particular show it influences the validity of the story line. I understand that it is a cartoon, but it still can make some sense. And if I were involved with giant robots from another planet, I would expect them to look the part, not like big models.

    Perhaps, it just seems weird to me that Has/Tak wouldn't use computer models. For such a intricate design, with complex moving pieces, it would seem the best way to go, vs. a hand drawn piece.
    On another note did you notice a difference in the head sculpt of Overhaul. Makes you wonder if he was always to become Leobreaker when he was first designed.
     
  12. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Overhaul was always set to become Leobreaker, according to transformers.com

    I honestly have no idea what you're saying.
     
  13. Boardwise

    Boardwise is scary - Sig Killer - M Super Mod

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    Well unless your taking about the original movie line or Beast Machine :p 
     
  14. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    The Transformers characters that are on the show look like toys.
     
  15. Darkravager

    Darkravager Zombie Hunter

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    They're supposed to look like toys. I think you're forgetting the purpose of the show. The show is not to tell an intricately woven storyline of intrigue and deception. It is to sell the toys. And when the characters in the show look like the toys, all the better from a marketers standpoint.
     
  16. Golden Age

    Golden Age BATTLE BEAST

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    I think that the G1 show characterized the toys well, and therby gave them more personality. This is why I dont like TFs as much nowadays. I tend to prefer 2d animation over 3d for this reason, but hey thats just me. Of course Pixar is the exception.
    Masterpeice Prime is the best toy ever in my opinion. It was inspired by the original show, which was in turn inspired by the original toy. The result was a level of genius never imagined by a toy collector.
     
  17. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    No. The toys themselves were most likely scanned in 3D. Then the resulting 3D models would have been cleaned up (to remove any errors when being scanned, screw holes, and so on), textured, rigged and animated.
    As long as the toys remain as damn good as the Cybertron ones, I will be happy.
    ...cutting corners? Are you kidding? Do you have the vaguest idea how much work would have gone into producing that show?
    The toys are sculpted (and most likely partially kitbashed), not designed on computers.
     
  18. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    And the show is always one big commercial to make the kids want to buy the toys.

    Remember, the toys and the show are for kids, no matter how much we want them to cater to our every beck and call.
     
  19. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    How can you like RID and complain about animation. I think the beginning of the anime trend with Transformers started with RID. Personally, I love Cybertron, though, and I love the work that they have been doing, especially the dub.
     
  20. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    I am not saying that I hate the show, I am not questioning the fact that Has/Taks put a lot of work into this, or that I hate everything and just bitch cause that is what I like to do. I feel I have a valid point that the new cartoon is not as good as say Beast Wars because the show was a stand alone show. It was based on the toys, but did not seem like commercial used to sell toys, if it were all the trans metals and trans metal 2 toys would be in the show. There was some substance to the show that I don't feel in Cybertron.
    I saw the new Cybertron last Friday (on YTV in Canada) and after it was done it was like a stretch to fit another character that is coming out in stores soon. A show is not longer fun or interesting when it is just a parade of toys. They can package up the parade with a tired storyline, make it look pretty, but underneath it is just a 30 min commercial to sell toys. I would hope it is more than that. I would hope that all of this time, effort, money etc that goes into running fan sites, collections, botcon etc.... would be resulted from a exciting, well told story about the transformers and it universe, not because it was based on a commercial.
     

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