I just realized the Decepticons are the good guys

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by DarkEnergon22, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    15,723
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +2,665
    The more I think about the Solar Harvester as a science fiction concept the worse it gets. Unless the very first Transformer took two steps with no energy, figured out how to build the Harvester with no energy and then flew out into space with no energy then how did the Transformers evolve before they mastered space flight that would get them where they needed to go quickly enough to have a source of energy? It's kind of like saying life depends on the iPhone even though life on Earth has done just fine before the iPhone. It really feels like a case of the writer needed a doomsday weapon without thinking the whole concept out.

    As to war and resources, every war is about some sort of resource. We just like to noble up the whole thing because it sounds better than saying you are sending people out to die over who gets to claim a spot of land, oil, gold, a food source, a trade route or whatever we happen to be fighting over at the moment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Posts:
    2,660
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,113
    You are assuming the transformers evolved to begin with. And even if they did, it would not be the way we understand evolution. Their evolution would be a whole other ball game. They were given life by the Allspark and forged by the creators. Its not like a block came to life one day, had one pint of energon in its system, then went from there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  3. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer Oof

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Posts:
    4,268
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Oklahoma, USA
    Likes:
    +6,343
    They didn't evolve. They...transformed
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Posts:
    2,660
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,113
    Except Demolishor has a conciousness. Unlike an animal, he can distinguish right from wrong. Plus, he must have done something to provoke the hunt for him. If he really was innocent of anything, he would have just surrendered. Probably killed a few humans and did property damage. His boast about the Fallen doesn't make him come off any less redeemable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    520
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +478
    @Rumblestorm
    The law and the saying goes, "innocent until proven guilty".

    We don't see him do anything "wrong" except run for his life.
    Ratchet surrendered, and was still killed.
    Megatron asked for a truce, and was killed.
    Sentinel begged for his life, and was killed.
    Proof that surrender does not guarantee survival.
    Heck, this is true even for interactions between police nowadays.
     
  6. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Posts:
    4,137
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,491
    Sentinel also shot Ironhide in the back without provocation. And didn't your heroic Decepicons kill Que while he was begging for his life, having literally harmed no one?
     
  7. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Posts:
    2,660
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,113
    Unless he has been proven guilty off screen.
     
  8. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Posts:
    2,660
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,113
    Ratchet was killed with malicious intents by Lockdown and the corrupt Cemetary Wind for not giving away Prime's location.
    Megatron was taunting Prime. If you're gonna make a truce, you don't say "All I wanted was to be back in charge, besides, who would you be without me?" You wanna avoid hostility for obvious reasons.
    Sentinel begged only because he was down and the Pillar was destroyed. After betraying the Autobots and destroying Chicago, Sentinel would just immediately stab Prime in the back again.

    Tl;dr If you are going to surrender to the good guys, don't be hostile towards them.
    At least in the films. Not gonna argue with that last bit.
     
  9. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    520
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +478
    All good arguments.
    They're all casualties of war after all.

    I'll still stand my ground however in expressing that given the context for each side's motivation for battle, I find the Decepticons the more relatable of the two.

    I would not just go quietly into extinction.
    I'd do whatever it took for the survival of our planet. Even if it meant the destruction of others with signs of less developed alien life.
     
  10. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Posts:
    1,945
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Likes:
    +1,316
    idk, to me, lockdown was all about business...he even openly stated his frustration with both factions (i wish we saw lockdown hunting down some decepticons to further this point)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    15,723
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +2,665
    Which has been a problem with the films that we are just expected to fill in large gaps they somehow couldn't get to in a movie running over two hours.

    At least with Laserbeak they got around to hey maybe we should show these guys doing something evil instead of just saying they are evil. Up until that point the Decepticons had come off as more of just indifferent to lower life forms.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Posts:
    5,231
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +4,249
    By the time the story progresses past the first movie it's a safe assumption that no faction there is innocent anymore.

    Humans will do everything what they believe works the best for their safety even if means turning on their own allies.

    Autobots were in total war with Decepticons for so long that it became by any means necessary even if it had to result in the entire planet dying and taking no prisoners.

    Decepticons are the very epitome of "by any means necessary" and will do absolutely everything to win.

    Take your pick, they're all effed up and rather unlikeable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. primal789

    primal789 Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Posts:
    4,332
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,445
    And that is quite realistic..in my eyes humans will always be the worst of all.They even betray themselves.
    I really respect that..you have a lot of faith in our planet.I personally wouldn't do it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    520
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +478
    To further add to this, at least Lockdown gave Ratchet a choice.

    Lockdown: There is one way you survive: tell me where he's hiding. Where is Optimus Prime?

    Ratchet: Never.

    [Lockdown kills Ratchet]

    Lockdown: Never is here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Posts:
    1,945
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Likes:
    +1,316
    & he kills ratchet not out of enjoyment but rather he knew ratchet would never turn on prime...ratchet was prime's boy after all! i do like how he took the spark...i saw it as kind of a respect thing (& goes hand-in-hand with his or the creators' philosophy of species intermingling, yeah he gave them the seed but that seems inconsequential compared to a transformer's spark)..although he was working with the humans..he didn't want them obtaining their spark..that was none of their business as far as he's concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Heliblade

    Heliblade Autobot Vigilante of Kaon

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Posts:
    748
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +972
    I blame sloppy Hollywood writing for why this theory holds weight.
     
  17. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Posts:
    2,588
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Wherever Autobots are
    Likes:
    +1,467
    Twitter:
    You should blame people's conscience, or more correctly its absence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  18. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Posts:
    2,588
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Wherever Autobots are
    Likes:
    +1,467
    Twitter:
    You missed one thing. Before the narration started we have a scene of panic and likely evaquation in Shanghai, because the chemical plant exploded. Decepticons attacked first. They killed people (a lot probably) and caused an ecologucal disaster. Autobots just responded. That was Decepticons' plan - they provocated Autobots, they called them using the bait. It was needed to give a signal for everyone that the Fallen is going to return. An act of terror, showing that Decepticons control situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  19. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Posts:
    1,945
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Likes:
    +1,316
    i could be mistaken & it's been a while since ive seen rotf but i thought that was just a cover to evacuate the area & for nest to go in...this was at a time when the transformers were just rumors & before the fallen took off the lid re: transformers being among humans
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. OmegaPrime22

    OmegaPrime22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Posts:
    1,993
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +87
    Wasn’t prime made aware unicron was earth? I doubt much changes even if prime learns that megatron kept back to take out unicron I bet it won’t be out of the goodness of his hear. Megatron will want something that unicron has its never that black and white with megatron. There would be something more behind him wanting to get rid of unicron and even tho I’m sure megatron would try to make prime look like the bad guy prime would say he was protecting the humans as he always does.
     

Share This Page