I just realized the Decepticons are the good guys

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by DarkEnergon22, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    Demolishor attacked first by throwing construction material, no one fired before that.

    So Decepticons are just wild animals now? That's what you do with a feral wild animal, you put them down for everyone's safety.
     
  2. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    There's nothing wrong with some Cybertronians not paying any attention to survival of some species just to bring their own home planet back.

    But there's also nothing wrong with humans going "gun 'em down ALL" on Cybertronians if they think that it's better for mankind.

    It's just that both sides simply have conflicting interestes, such is life.
     
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  3. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Put me in a life or death situation, then corner me...and I'll react in the same way.
    It's called "instinct"/ "fight or flight".

    If the world took your last statement as advice, we'd have to kill at least 50% of the wild animals and roughly the same amount of humans.
     
  4. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    Not paying attention is not the same as the Decepticons actively trying to wipe out virtually all life on the planet, or actively trying to enslave humanity.
     
  5. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    No, because far more than 50% of wild animals live in the wilderness away from people. They don't show up in major metropolitan areas plotting the destruction of virtually all life on Earth.
     
  6. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Life on earth is overrated.
    As Lockdown said, "Every galaxy I’ve traveled, all you species are the same. You all think you’re the center of the universe. You have no idea. I feel sorry for you, Prime. Your allegiance to these humans. The trouble with loyalty to a cause is that the cause…will always betray you".

    Optimus and the Autobots were hunted or betrayed by humans at some point in every Transformers movie.
    For a fleeting moment in AOE, and as Nemesis Prime were the only points where he had some sign of common sense about his commitment to humans.
     
  7. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    You realize you and everyone you love is part of life on Earth?

    They were also helped by humans in every movie. The only reason Cemetery Wind was able to hunt the Autobots is because they were lying to the government about their activities.
     
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  8. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    It's exactly this - not paying attention/not caring if the life on Earth has any worth or not. They take Earth and everyone there as a disposable resource. They don't hate, they don't loathe, they simply need so they take it. They're indifferent to what it takes.

    In this thread there's a lot of clinging to the idea that different species should be holding the value of life of other species as high as their own.

    Except this is hardly an universal truth.

    Humans aren't Cybertronians and Cybertronians aren't humans. There's no link between species here, they didn't even originate in the same biosphere.

    It's awfully nice and heroic and noble when humans and Cybertronians DO respect the other species lives...

    ...but that's hardly any universal moral requirement. It's just a generous act of good will, not a hard set moral imperative.
     
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  9. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    And you think there is nothing wrong with this?
     
  10. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Should we start listing how many times humans did the same?

    *shrugs*

    Moral imperatives like "don't kill" count pretty much within the same species.

    Otherwise it's just the nature of the beast. One species hunting another.

    Decepticons still can't claim the higher moral ground because the cataclysm they were trying to undo is their own co-responsibility to begin with. They started a total war so it's not a big surprise that Autobots were fighting back.

    Human villains are still villains because they kept working with aliens like Lockdown or doing stupid things like trying to deal with Megatron despite having absolutely zero experience with this kind of dealing ever ending well.



    But I'm pretty sure that if manking ever wrecked our own planet, let's say the Cold War ended in a nuclear holocaust and we were forced to evacuate out of an irradiated cesspool of a dying planet, then you'd find no governemnt opposing hard to exploitation of an alien species just to make Earth inhabitable again.
     
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  11. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    I would never label them as "the good guys"

    Really, I'd like to see you try and prove that. No one would have a problem with enslaving an entire intelligent technological species, or destroying their world? Instead of diplomacy or negotiation? Especially if we were at the level of technology where space travel is efficient to the point of reaching other planets which would mean colonization of a different planet would be a viable option.
     
  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Really, I'd like to see you try and prove otherwise.

    Considering all the historical examples of exploitation done to other cultures of the same species AND entire other species being driven to extinction because either the land or the resources were wanted despite the technology even then being sufficient enough to find a better way.

    Even now we're living in the age when oil technically isn't absolutely necessary and we have technologies to get around without it with no more drama over the resource, but for many reasons it's just easier to keep using it.

    I find it hard to believe that a prospect of having back the mankind ancestral home with all its emotional and cultural gravity would be opposed by the majority. Some people would protest, but the majority would simply roll with it.
     
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  13. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    I'm not making a claim, I am questioning yours that no governments would have a problem enslaving an entire race.

    When was the last time an entire race was enslaved? How many species have been brought back from the brink of extinction because of human involvement? How many laws are there against the hunting or killing of endangered species? How many laws are there protecting habitats for endangered species?
     
  14. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Still overrated.

    The facts remain (even within our own species) that when a more advanced culture meets another. The lesser of the two suffers at the hands of the more advanced.

    I do admire the fact that you cling to the moral high ground. However, self-preservation is the nature of all living things. I assure you that even your sense of morality will be afflicted when the lives of the ones you hold dear are in the balance. Especially when it pertains to another species.
     
  15. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Every single domesticated species we keep right now is technically enslaved. They don't match us in terms of brain power but they still think or feel... But they're technically a property.

    Even the laws preventing the animal cruelty don't explicitly forbid sedating animals when it's needed. The catch being - it's us who's deciding when it's needed. They only stop us from slaying the others right and left, or with excessive cruelty, but no emphasis is put on an animal life being as important as is a human one.

    Now, it you think that the same governments that keep fighting wars over the resources would stop and think over a fate of the entire alien planet... Well, good luck.

    Even at least two of our dominant faiths require having access to two locations on this planet so if the planet was lost there's a fat chance that people of said faiths would not pay that much attention to anything getting in the way of having the planet back.

    At the very best you could probably expect native life forms being kept in preserves to keep them from a total extinction and to rub our sensibilities the right way.

    And really, there's nothing in our species history to expect anything different.



    But you do you and believe in what you will.

    I wouldn't count on mankind behaving much different same as I doubt many species in the same situation would be much more merciful to us.
     
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  16. siccoyote

    siccoyote Worst side of the fandom

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    If only the ice didn't freeze faster than it's melting we wouldn't have had all this problem
     
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  17. Brave Magnus

    Brave Magnus Hecho en Argentina

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    The movie "Wall-E" can disagree with you. Cybertron wasnt dead, was just in a horrible shape! Look at Earth in "Wall-E", it took like..HUNDREDS of years to restore itself. In different continuities, its the same case for Cybertron: it looks like s..t til, one day, it magically restores itself. Megatron was ok trying to save their homeworld. Of course he did it in the wrong way but it was still a noble cause.
     
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  18. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    We don't enslave entire species, and do you think if dogs started communicating that they don't want to be owned people would just ignore them and keep going with their lives?

    So what if there are no laws saying that they are as important as humans? Do we not have laws in place to prevent killing of endangered species? And when they are sedated is that not for the benefit of the animal?

    Even in those situations, which aren't very common and don't tend to last. Are entire countries enslaved or their populations wiped out?

    Even if that were true, which I highly doubt it would be. It's still a better alternative to what the "Good Guy" Decepticons attempted.
     
  19. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahaha!
    So true.
     
  20. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    S'okay.

    Chances are wel'll do good enough on a self-inflicted extiction long before any moral challenges of encountering other sapient species will be of any real concern.

    Problem solved!
     
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