I just had a funny thought

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Abrogate, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Posts:
    7,086
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
    We all know that one of the biggest debates in the fandom is "g1 purists vs people who prefer articulation"

    And even among G1 purists, it's generally argued that the 84/85 line is far superior to the post-movie toys. (and frankly I agree with that sentiment).

    Now, can we take this same line of thinking 20 years into the future?

    Just imagine: someone who's a really little kid now. In 20 years, he declares that Armada was the greatest Transformers series, and decries Cybertron and the Classics. Armada was completely drawn, while Cybertron was this weird CGI stuff. Armada had an army of minicons, while Cybertron had lame cyberkeys.

    I know it's a pretty ludicrous idea but it's something that popped into my head.

    I hope I dont offend G1 purists or anyone else :p 
     
  2. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Eh, it's bound to happen. People almost always will argue that the series they grew up with or came into the fandom because of is the greatest. No matter what has come out since, or how many advancements new lines have...

    Not all people blindly follow this, my self for example, but enough of them that are vocal enough. Not that there's anything wrong with loving past lines more than new ones, I love Beast Wars over just about everything, but it's just the way some people go about making others aware of that preference...
     
  3. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    I guess I can add a slightly different perspective. I was grown and well employed when the Transformers were intoduced in 84. I started collecting in 85 but made up for the lost time. Since I have no childhood memories to "rape" as some fans so politely put it, I've found postives, and negatives in every line. Since I collect and display, not play with Transformers, articulation is just a nice feature to have. I always thought the "Brick" arguement was silly, as even some of the best articulated Beasts are "brickish" in at least one mode. I love G1, as I'm first and foremost a G1 Fan, but I still don't think there's a "best ever" Transformers series for the reasons I've already mentioned. I just love Transformers. G1 may not have had the best articulated Transformers, but character developement for the most part was top notch. I know Jazz, Wheeljack, Prime, Hound etc. almost like I've known some good friends. Beasts added a new dimension, their articulation technology has improved Transformers from RID/CR forward. Armada leaned towards the blocky but introduced those beloved Minicons. Energon gave us Energon Stars, with almost unlimited Transformer combinations. Okay, not everyone likes Minicons or Combinations, but it kept children entertained (the largest market for TFs). Maybe Galaxy Force/Cybertron came down a notch with the Cyber/Ignition keys, but that line IMHO had some of the best looking Transfomers. Classics are great as are the Binalternators. A major detractor is Hasbro's seemingly pandemic QC issues. All the other sublines have their charms too, so that about every Transformers fan can find something to like.

    Anyway, having been grown when this all started, I've come to accept the postion not to bash anyone for what they like, or dislike. It's what makes this such an interesting board. So what Generation is the best? G1 gives me the fondest memories, but that can change person by person as to when they were intoduced to Transformers. Back in the Eighties, no one ever dreamed that over 20 years later Transformers would still be going strong. I also feel that whatever Michael Bay cooks up, The Transformers brand will survive so long a children can keep getting excited by "two toys in one". More than meets the eye indeed.
     
  4. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Posts:
    7,121
    Trophy Points:
    251
    Likes:
    +0
    Okay I'm going to have to ask, what episodes?

    I've watched my DVDs a few times and with the exception of Thundercats. I don't place Transformers on a list of 80s cartoons that had characterization.

    Maybe 3rd season G1 with Rodimus, but even then it fluctuates
     
  5. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    Forgive me, but I didn't mean to imply episodes, rather the totality of all media since 84. However for example, I think all the G1 seasons had better voices than let's say Energon and Cybertron by cricky! :D 
     
  6. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    You're asking a very valid question, but i wonder something... why did you just automatically assume he was talking about the chartoon? There was a comic that ran concurrently with the 'toon. Heck, the comic outlasted the show. Also there were various other places, techspecs for example, that gave insights into the characters' personalities. I know the cartoon was probably the most high profile, but why does it seem that everybody always singles it out as the end-all be-all of transformers fiction?

    Eh... sorry about the rant. Meant no offense, just wondering is all. It bothers me... :p 
     
  7. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Posts:
    7,121
    Trophy Points:
    251
    Likes:
    +0
    No worries, as he could've very well have been talking about the 'toon. I guess it was just a natural assumption as I find that when most people in this fandom talk about G1. They're talking about the cartoon and choose to discount the comics as it goes against the grain of the cartoon.

    But it's moot as Backscatter replied to my post already :D 
     
  8. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:

    Cool. And yeah, moot. You just got me while i was reading the Infiltration trade and struck a nerve is all. :p 

    Just for future knowledge... I think opposite to what 'most' fans think. For me it's comics first. :thumb 
     
  9. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Posts:
    17,108
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Likes:
    +57
    Due to the proliferation of all kinds of media, I have the feeling that there's not going to be a lot out there that "everyone" fondly remembers, especially twenty years down the road. There will always be someone out there saying that Transformers cartoons or toys were better BEFORE the movie (either movie), however. :) 
     
  10. Insane Galvatron

    Insane Galvatron is not insane. Really!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Posts:
    15,601
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +34
    I know this has already been answered, but I'd like to take a stab at it. There are no "single episodes" that build characterization. It's built up over many episodes as you get to see different sides of a characters personality. Your question almost implies that there was no characterization in G1. Had there not been, I doubt all those kids would've cried so hard at Prime's death.
     
  11. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Posts:
    7,086
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
    I'm sure of that, but I think it's funnier to picture someone in 20 years trying to make a distinction between Armada and what came later. Think of some guy claiming Armada Hot Shot is better than Classics Bumblebee because it's what he grew up with. Picture some guy saying that even though Armada Red Alert and Cybertron Red Alert are the same guy, the Armada one is superior cos it's bigger and he grew up with it. To me that's amusing. That's really the only point of this thread.
     
  12. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    Well, two things then:

    1. May The Transformers exist 20 years from now as they do today. Imagine the 40th Anniversary Transformers in 2024 and maybe yet another release of TFTM in 2026. :lol !

    2. May we all be here in 20 years, I'll be retired by then if I'm still around. :) 
     
  13. Lycanthropic Tendencies

    Lycanthropic Tendencies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    523
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +1
    I don't think it is. I think that's what some want to make it.


    G1 purists are pursits for several reasons.
    Some prefer the toy. Others prefer the overall design, whether it's G1 Prowl or BTA Alert tech.
    Then there are those who love the show, comic or even the tech spec charactisations.
    There are those who say G1 and mean a combination of many of these things.
    And finally there are those who are G1 only purists because of continuity.

    In reality, we see many G1 purists talk about show accurate figures, so they can't be hung up on brick toys.

    In my experience it's often those opposed to g1 that bring up the brick figures.

    You can tell people til you're blue in the face that you like the overall designs, but would like them updated, given better articulation, and they'll tell you it can't be done.
    You can tell them that you'd like to see show accurate toys and they'd tell you they'd have to be limited in ariculation, bricks.
    You can tell them that when you say g1, you don't mean every last figure, that it has poor figures like every other lijne, but they'll treat the phrase g1 as an all inclusive no exceptions phrase.
    If they point out a crap figure and you say you weren't referring to that figure or line, they'll say you invalidated your whole argument.

    It's all very weird.

    I'd say the biggest debate in the fandom is actually those who think g1 should be forgotten and never mentioned again and those who would like to continue seeing it in some form or another.
     
  14. fschuler

    fschuler Member TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Posts:
    2,202
    Trophy Points:
    216
    Likes:
    +0
    Great post, dude. And you seem to be in a minority, around here anyway, in that you were an adult collector back in the early G1 days. Sometimes I wish I could have been older and had the financial resources to get more of the toys back then, however, the whole G1 universe may not have seemed as special to me had I been grown up at the time.
     
  15. fschuler

    fschuler Member TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Posts:
    2,202
    Trophy Points:
    216
    Likes:
    +0
    Pretty true, IMO, but, maybe, "remembered, but left in the past" as opposed to "forgotten and never mentioned again", though, there does seem to be some that do hold that opinion. It makes sense to me to remember where the franchise came from, but to continue expanding it and entering new realms.
     
  16. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Posts:
    7,086
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
    if they like BTA, then they're not the "purists" I'm talking about. For me, purists means people who are doggedly rooted in their stance. And in this case, that stance is people who only like toys from the pre-BW era (and in some cases, only the 84/85 era). I have actually seen people who dont like Alternators or Classics because "these arent the figures I played with as a kid."

    if a G1 purist was someone who liked the Alternators because of their vintage aesthetic, then I'd be one of them :lol 
     
  17. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    Thanks dude. The 80's were a different time in the world and in my life. When the Transformers were getting introduced, I had recently lost my father (48) and beloved grandmother to cancer. There was no public Internet. Oline communities were dial-in Bulletin boards or text-only Compuserve. The days even before America Online. Most of the TF buddies I communicated with back then was by snail mail only. It wasn't until the days of Powermaster Prime that I began to suspect the Japanese were doing something different. Anyway, I digress. There was no "G1" back in those days and I found The Transformers to be a pleasant fantasy escape. I still do. So the Transformers were special, even "grown up".
    As Weird Al sings, "I'm white and Nerdy, my Action Figures are cherry." :D 
     
  18. Lycanthropic Tendencies

    Lycanthropic Tendencies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    523
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +1
    That to me is just as bad.
    See, I don't personally get why it has to be one or the other.

    I used to collect citadel miniatures, mainly from the Warhammer 40K game.

    40K was not first, it was to Warhammer what Armada or any other show is to g1.
    We didn't need to "prove" it was superior to Warhammer to enjoy it, we didn't insist Warhammer fans "accept" this new game was the future and non 40K was best left in the past.
    And by that same token, the Warhammer fans didn't call 40K a pretender, or a cheap imitation, or insist it would fail and everything should go back to Warhammer.

    And neither set of fans picked on the other games avaiable either.
    We just all enjoyed our stuff and respected the other stuff and people's right to enjoy it.

    Both are still going strong, and fan reaction played a huge part in that.

    Transformers could be the same.

    We have a regular toy line, a collector's toyline, Mp/Anni, Titanium, and room for more. We have a movie, a show, various comics.

    There's enough for all.

    I actually agree with you, but many refuse to differentiate.

    I've seen people crticise Alts, MPs, Cybertron, the movie, Classics, Titaniums, and get reactions from others about being typical geewunners or purists etc.

    90% haven't been, but this fandom likes to make it's blanket judgements and portray anyone who doesn't like something they do as a biased hater of anything bar G1.

    I left this fandom because of geewunners.
    I came back to find very few of those still around, but a fandom obsessed with them, attacking and labelling regular fans as one then moaning about how many of them there are.

    It's fascinating really how this fandom looks from the outside.
     
  19. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Posts:
    17,108
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Likes:
    +57
    It's funnier, probably because it's harder to picture from an outside perspective. the difference in time between Armada and Classics isn't that big, especially compared to the distance between the premiere of G1 and Bw, or G2, not quite generational anyway, despite how fast they say kids grow up. It's easy to be big(ger) on the first couple years of G1, because it was new, and made a big splash. It's hard to find a good analogy, since every year of TF toys was distinct in it's own way, but how many people do you hear talking about how Headmasters toys were so much better than say, Pretender classics, because that's what they grew up with?

    Yup, hard to come up with a suitable analogy. :) 
     
  20. Seeker

    Seeker Time Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Posts:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +24
    Ebay:
    I like the G1 continuity because that is the one I fell in lve with as a child. I will admit that the old toys are a bit dated compared to a lot of the later Tfs but they still have a certain quality to them. Maybe it's just nostalgia from a old fogey.
     

Share This Page