i don't really don't get critics now,

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by sideswipe1, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. sideswipe1

    sideswipe1 because damn he's good

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    ok, on rotten tomatoes, critics killed ROTF for being nothing but a popcorn flick with over the top action and barely any plot. but they like gi joe for most of the same reasons. i now am convinced that some critics hated ROTF because of Bay. i know that it is early in the tomatoe meter for gi joe but i just have to wonder, if the cgi is ropey, story telling in convoluted and the acting over the top, what is the real difference between it and ROTF.

    please don't start a flame war and keep it civil, if you just want to bash the movies go to another thread, lets try to have a discussion.


    linkhttp://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gi_joe/
     
  2. Conboi

    Conboi Active Member

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    Need to see GI Joe before I can comment, will let you know as soon as I see it.
     
  3. sideswipe1

    sideswipe1 because damn he's good

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    i am just wondering how the can bash one movie and like another while saying the same things about it. cinemablend has a good story about it as well.
     
  4. bulletthebluesky

    bulletthebluesky Mmmm... Beer

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    Because hating on Transformers is the cool thing to do now. Everybody is doing it.

    And, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with Bay being attached to TF. Although I see that as being a piss poor excuse.
     
  5. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say considering none of us have seen it. However I will it is possible for two people to make over the top action movies and for one of them to do a good job at it and the other not. Gi Joe seams to be going for the campy playful style, just like Sommers did with mummy and his other flicks. Bay has always gonna for a weird blend of crude humor and over the top action. In other words Sommers movies are like "Hey we know were being stupid but lets have fun" and Bays movies are like "Ha, Ha, BOOM, POW, Ewww, look at this were cool. Even saying all this I will go into GI joe with zero expectations. Nothing I have seen so far has got me excited. Sommers could learn alot from Bay about "the money shot" and good trailers.
     
  6. payton34

    payton34 Well-Known Member

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    It's not a case of "boo hoo, the only reason they hate ROTF is because of Bay".

    They're not screening "GI Joe" for critics at large before it opens, probably because they're hoping to avoid the same sort of backlash. No, some places like AintItCool and CHUD (I think) have been able to see it early, but just wait. Come Monday or Tuesday of next week, that tomatometer will take a nosedive.
     
  7. Skeeve

    Skeeve Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, there are two kinds of movies that get the criticism of "no plot."

    1) Movies where the plot is underdeveloped and simplistic.
    2) Movies where the plot is too meandering and wanders in confusing direction like an ADD kid full of Pop Rocks on rollerblades.

    GI Joe seems to be #1, while Transformers seems to be #2.
     
  8. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Tough to say since I haven't seen GI Joe yet.

    My guess is it's like cooking and comedy.

    You can give people access to the same ingredients and the same type of stove but that doesn't mean everyone's cake will come out the same. Some people produce one that is fantastic while other people will have a not so good cake.

    Or like comedy where you can give people the same joke and get different results. The person with good timing and delivery can have people rolling on the floor while the person with the same joke who lacks timing and delivery couldn't get a chuckle.

    I'm not sure that people just automatically dislike Bay movies only because it's Bay that directed it. If he changed up his play book and produced something that floored people on more than just the action I'm sure critics would sing his praises. Of course when you don't really change your style any from film to film you can see where people start to expect the same thing. If you didn't like other Bay movies he doesn't exactly give you a lot to like about his next film.
     
  9. sideswipe1

    sideswipe1 because damn he's good

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    that is a very good point and may be the reason why the resulting reviews are different.
     
  10. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    ^ This.

    Or it could also be a far more coherent, better written mindless summer movie. (which really surprised me- it looked absolutely awful to me)

    Almost every single shot of ROTF looks cooler than anything we've seem for GI Joe, but Bay has never been a big picture kinda guy. Meaning the little parts of his movies often don't flow together very well.
     
  11. Paxtin

    Paxtin Why am I here?

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    I agree with MegaHavok on that it probably does have to do with someone who can actually do a popcorn flick well, with a at least cohesive direction to it, vs someone who's approach to it is just to throw stuff at you from the screen.

    That said, there does seem to be this almsot cartoony mentality to hate on Bay, even in professional media.
    And the guy definitely deserves a lot of the criticism he gets. But at times it can also feel like people are hating on him just because it's Bay, and they don't need a reason.
     
  12. sideswipe1

    sideswipe1 because damn he's good

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    T
    some of the things said about the movie were not even said about some of the truly horrible movies like battlefield earth. they went way over the top in the bash department. there are louder, more spasdic movies out there that didn't even get this treatment.
     
  13. vektsilver

    vektsilver Transorganic member

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    This is what happens when you generalize. lol

    The reason the film got killed is not for being a popcorn flick or being to many cgi robots. Even take the plot hole riddled anemic story that is on the border line of understandable out of it and you have a movie poorly edited and badly paced. Lots of shots that extend the movies screen time that are unneccasry and overall detract from the film being enjoyable to anyone who is over the amazement of oooh CGI Transformers.

    Its not the action they kill if for its the action that serves little to no purpose in progressing any of the scenes.

    The movie really did suck the nut sack hard and the quality that is directly related to what Michael Bay is in charge of was such a hack job it was bad even for him.

    If you cant see that then you need to look at it like this. Take the CGI element out and take the transformers franchise out of it replacing them with generic animatronics and now how does the movie hold up. Its pretty boring and long not to mention confusing. Thats how the movie looks to people trying to see past the glitz to the actually movie/story itself.

    You cant be impressed by the visuals alone and call it a good movie. In 10 to 20 years time every movie out will be able to afford cgi like this, making this not so noteable in the future, even though currently its amazing. Does this mean that is it going to be a classic like star wars where even though better FX come out people still love the TF movies for something other than the cgi.... I dont think so. All that the TF movies have are the CGI and our wanting to see a transformer look real but for everyone else it is superfluous


    few movies this bad still get this much attention is the point your missing. So yes hence it gets more criticism because its in a bigger spot light. Thats pretty easy to understand. Like the way you hear about the drama of the best sports players but never really see the same criticism about lesser players.
     
  14. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I don't get why we need countless threads about how people don't get critics. Time to move on with our lives, people. Critics view each movie on its own merits. They don't watch ROTF then G.I.Joe, and say, "ROTF had these elements that I hated so I must automatically apply ROTF standards for G.I.Joe."

    And also, it's not like Sommers isn't without his critics. They HATED 'The Mummy Returns' and 'Van Helsing.'
     
  15. Peter Cullen91

    Peter Cullen91 Well-Known Member

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    you know, now that you mention it, I'm starting to think that all this bashing is because of Bay, not the movie itself. I'm wondering if this is all like some sort of hatred towards Bay, getting back at him for his previous movies. Personally, even though I loved rotf, I don't care about Bay, but I think people are being too biased towards him.
     
  16. TFfan08

    TFfan08 Vigilante

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    This^^
    I've to agreed with you on this.
     
  17. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    Why Bay Gets What He Gets

    I have to agree with alot of you who feel that Michael Bay is hated by film critics. Heres a couple of the reasons why:

    Michael Bay is a commercial director. I mean this literally. He created some of the most fun and memorable commercials of the early 2000's. He is responsible for some of the very funny "Got milk" adds and those HOT Victoria secret adds and alot of car commercials.

    Even watching his old work you will see alot of Bay. Quick cuts, fast moving cameras, and alot of humor and sex.

    When he eventually made the leap to Film Bay has kept this style. Looking over all the movies he has made I have to say I enjoyed most of them. Pearl Harbor was to long, I never saw the Island and well then there is Rotf. But Bays movies suffer due to the fact he still runs them like commercials. He aims for universal appeal and money shots. If he come up with a sequence that he thinks is cool then he puts it in. He makes decisons based on what looks good not what suits the chracters. He runs his movies as a business not as an artist with a vision. For a movie studio having a director who likes to work fast, makes movies for everybody, and come in under budget is awesome.

    Then there is the film critics. I say Film critics, not Movie critics, or reviewer. I am referring to the guys who went to film school and for them a movie is no different then a painting. "Film critics" hate summer movies!! They lack depth, focus and story. Now Bay, Bay is the champion of the Summer movie. It is a title he took over from Roland Emmerich after all his movies started flopping. As a result of this his movies will always be over analyzed.

    It does not help that Bay has a big mouth. He keeps looking bad. He criticizes marketing for his movies. He verbally spares with his actors in the press. He brags about his relationship with the military.

    Bay has made his bed. Some of it is his fault. Some of it isn't. Now he gets to lie in it. Luckily his bed is made of money.
     
  18. payton34

    payton34 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Michael Bay is bashed by critics, which perfectly explains why the first "Transformers" got generally favorable reviews. :crazy: 
     
  19. Peter Cullen91

    Peter Cullen91 Well-Known Member

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    wasn't the first one more like "mixed" reviews?
     
  20. payton34

    payton34 Well-Known Member

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    57% compared to 20% for ROTF. Not oscar-caliber, but still almost three times as favorable.
     

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