Actually, I'm a fairly casual fan (my first series was, as stated, Armada, and I only really *got into* TF at all recently with the Aligned continuity stuff) and I find z-listers almost more compelling than the folks I already know about. I don't need to be told or have it demonstrated to me that Optimus Prime is heroic, a father to his men, etc. etc. etc., I know that already. That's Prime in every incarnation, same thing with Megatron, Starscream, and so on with their characteristics. Some things just don't need to be done yet again. It's often simpler to make a new character than to try to get people to accept to changing an old one--look at all the nonsense that happened when people heard Movie!Optimus was going to have flames on his cab. Sure, you can do interesting interpretations of old characters--see Shattered Glass for an example, or going outside Transformers, pretty much every incarnation of Batman--but if you're A) looking to do something new and B) looking to sell toys (make no mistake, nearly everything TF-related is at least in part to sell toys) why not either make new characters (Rung, Drift) or dust off obscure old ones? I'm kind of perplexed by how you're complaining about this comic and saying it's "not Transformers", and then also saying that you like it. You're kind of undercutting yourself here. You're obviously entitled to your opinion and whatnot, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
He's saying the only "real" Transformers are those from 1984 and 1985. And that later years are not real. Thats his thing. What he continually fails to realise is that not everyone started being a fan in 1984. I was three years old when they came out. I only became a fan in 1986 and was only able to watch repeats of season one and two episodes and catch up on the early comics via second hand issues. Season three and the latter half of the Marvel stories were the fiction I grew up with. Roche and Roberts didn't really want to write characters with a long established history. Optimus Prime will always be Optimus Prime, Prowl will always be Prowl. There's very little room to be creative. Even Starscream in RiD is still expected to turn traitor at any moment. With the likes of Tailgate, Swerve, Whirl and others, they can pretty much write them how they want to, creating *NEW* fan favorite characters in the process. Nobody cared for Tailgate and Swerve before MTMTE, now they're up there with the likes of Bumblebee and Cliffjumper to many readers. But the thing is, it didn't have to be Tailgate and Swerve - neither of them are based on their original tech specs but the characterisation is so good, that we don't care. Neither of them had a chance to live up to their original tech specs - Tailgate has never been to Earth and Swerve hasn't been seen driving in vehicle mode.
Except that I am a casual reader and my new profile pic is a z-lister. For me those z-listers are becoming favorites. Edit: I was playing FOC last night again (campaign), and during the combaticon stages, they are constantly ripping on Starscream and each other, and it's chuckle-inducing amidst all of the action. I think this comic captures the soul of Transformers more than just about anything else out there. Playing FOC and reading this comic on the same week brought some warm feelings, lol
1986. Hasbro felt as though they better bring Optimus back. I'm sure this was because they figured out that people being pissed over Optimus' death wasn't good for sales. How about every incarnation of Optimus, Megatron, Starscream or Bumblebee? Why keep bringing those characters back in different series when they could just follow the '86 business model and keep creating new characters? Why put Optimus, Megatron, Starscream and Bumblebee in Bayformers? Why not Chromedome, Rewind, Swerve and Tailgate? The Answer: because the public wants to see OP, Megs, SS and BB! Interest equals sales. Many people are just not interested in Roberts' choice of characters.
Except the new movie is supposed to introduce new characters, so someone else is seeing this as an option. Hasbro might be playing it safe, but that doesn't indicate that it's the right thing to do. As a consumer I am so ready for that change. In fact, wasn't it a little show called Beast Wars that actually brought TF back into the limelight? It's been a while since I've watched Beast Wars, but was there a red semi in it? Or a gold VW bug? What about a guy who turned into a gun? I need to watch Beast Wars again to see if I missed something. It's BW that made names like Ratrap, and Cheetor household names among the fans. Z-listers are only z-listers until fans embrace them. The Arial Bots were z-Listers in season 2, until they started populating more episodes.
They may sell well with the general public but fans are tired of seeing Optimus Prime and Bumblebee keep showing up with countless new toys and repaints. The comics are aimed at the fans, not the general public. The type of fan you're talking about won't get why we get such a kick out of seeing all the various characters and references. Nope. If that were true, Costa's stories would have been much more well recieved because they featured those four characters. As it turns out, a bad story featuring popular characters doesn't sell well. And a good story featuring previously obscure characters is selling well. You don't have to know who Chromedome, Swerve or Tailgate are prior to reading MTMTE to enjoy their stories or understand who the characters are, the comic tells the new reader all they need to know. This is the first time such characters have been put in the spotlight. Anyway, Starscream and Bumblebee are in RiD, Optimus Prime shows up sometimes and Megatron is just biding his time until his huge dramatic return. Optimus Prime and Megatron both died in the Marvel comics somewhat early on. The comics went on without them regardless. Actually, the Marvel comics only started dropping in sales once Megatron returned.
I, for one, absolutely love seeing "new" characters in TF. Mostly because it adds so much more dramatic tension. I have not seen Tailgate for 20 odd years doing the exact same thing to the point that I can predict everything he will ever say and do. Also, you never know who will die and when. Optimus can't just die from a random monster of the week attack - it has to be a climatic event. However, as we just saw, Flywheels can bite it easily. When the DJD showed up, I had no idea is ANY of those guys would make it out alive. It's very engaging. If you want to see Bee, OP, etc, look at EVERY OTHER PIECE OF TF FICTION EVER. If you'd like something else, try the new IDW.
Just to shoot another hole in the swiss cheese that is 1984's stance, I just asked a friend who has only read Last Stand of the Wreckers. He's not a die hard fan of Transformers but has a passing interest in it. I posed to him the question, would Last Stand have been better or more appealing if Optimus, Megatron, and the rest been involved. I feel it is a valid question for this debate as that book did something similar, ie took unknowns and made them the main characters. He vehemently said it would have made the book worse. He felt Overlord was a much more interesting antagonist. In his words, if Megatron and the others had been the stars it would have been very out of character.
Name recognition, same reason people buy specific name brand products. Plus, simply because they're NAMED the same doesn't mean they ARE the same. Take Animated for instance; is there an Optimus Prime leading some Autobots? Yep. Is he the supreme leader of all Autobots? LOL NOPE. He's literally nobody special who is in charge of what amounts to an Autobot galactic janitor team full of a grumpy veteran and three dysfunctional misfits. He's young, inexperienced, and NOTHING like the 1980's Optimus of old. The two may share similar design traits and names, but that's pretty much it, as character wise they are lightyears apart. And as for Bumblebee...hell, I think even Sari eventually hangs out more with Bulky than him eventually. Because none of those "z-listers" are Decepticons? Kind of hard to have a movie about Transformers without any major Decepticons... Yes. Because their whoring of Bumblebee certainly got all those DOTM variants of him to sell SO well... Cullen as Prime has already been confirmed, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a bit part where he's giving the new guys orders or something. CGI models of Prime and the original Megatron do show up towards the end, since BW Megsy breaks into the Ark and tries to kill Optimus before the events of G1's cartoon. I think Soundwave gets a cameo as well. In terms of alt. modes, though, only Ravage does it when he goes all "DECEPTICONS FOREVER!" and transforms into a cassette which, when inserted into a tape player in his ship, plays 80's hair rock (it was originally supposed to be the original TFTM theme, but they couldn't get the permission to do so)
Again, it's really not worth talking to him about this stuff. -ZacWilliam, when someone knows the "truth" regardless of "the facts" it rarely is.
No, I know. I called Megatron's Agenda back in the days, before people knew what he was up to. Sorry, my sarcasm was almost South Parkish in my original statement. Ironhide and Prowl (I think) shows up in a flashback when Black Arachnia is telling the story of the Ark's launch. I just meant that the entire show and it's characters are based on a completely new model, with only the name Optimus and Megatron being familiar. It wasn't until near the end of Season 1 that Starscream made an appearance.
Well then you should know that the truth hurts. Reoccurring characters was not DOTM's weak point. Hasbro couldn't sell the same ugly movie toys 3x in a row, THAT was their weakness. Yes, the old characters should have been made available, but they should have been short packed or offered in a later wave. Hasbro's focus should have been the new characters on the store shelves. Expect TF4 to do well at the box office, but it will perform below expectations if it's filled with unknown characters. The new characters will sell toys only if they make a good showing on the big screen. Complicated? Yes, well that's life. Beast Wars DID NOT bring Transformers back. Transformers would have resurfaced on it's own at some point in time. If anything came close to restoring Transformers to it's former glory, it was Bayformers.
Ah, my bad then, didn't pick up on the sarcasm Yes, because as far as the Transformers brand in America is concerned, the years 1991-1992 never happened.
Why did Starscream have to show up at all? Why use the name Optimus and Megatron on completely new characters? Because the people behind Beast Wars didn't have confidence that the show could stand on it's own, that's why. After a few years BW died and failed to bring back squat. Beast Wars made collectors want to collect G1 figures, not BW. When Hasbro wants to excrete a new KO series they borrow heavily from G1, not Beast Wars. Every MTMTE issue is beginning to read like filler. Lots of talk, little action and a lot of time waiting for Overlord to hatch. Sometimes I wonder what Roberts could do with well known characters in traditional Autobot vs. Decepticon settings. So much wasted potential by both writer and artist. One is only able to script good dialog for the dregs of G1, and the other is stuck drawing Rescue Bots style alt modes for them.
They did the Starscream to hint at the G1 nature of the series. They used the names Megatron and Optimus to grab your attention, but changed just about everything. And while not the basis of every show, Beast Wars still shows up all the time-like Animated Cheetor, Blackarachnia, Waspinator, and Rattletrap. Prime has made reference to Fuzors, and Beast Wars introduced David Kaye and Gary Chalk to the series-two VAs who would voice Prime and Megatron for years. To say that it brought back nothing is incorrect. Just because a story isnt action packed doesnt mean everything is filler. If you were to look at a romantic comedy, no big fight scenes there. This isn't supposed to be fighting robots, the series is supposed to be what would happen in this scenario, one of peace. Otherwise, the fighting was pointless. As for the art and writing, both are phenominal, though admittedly that is opinion. Since you seem to be UBER G1, i'd like to ask-what do you think happened to the Transformers in rebirth after they ended the war and revived Cybertron? Think they just kept fighting? or stopped existing? NO. They had peacetime. Which is what we're seeing now.
