Hypothetical situation. Need cashiers/store manager insight.

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by TranstechCat, May 4, 2009.

  1. TranstechCat

    TranstechCat Cybernetic Chimpanzee

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    Say someone were to go into a Walmart/Target/whatever and find some ROTF toys on the shelves. Knowing they likely won't ring up, they open the toy on the way to the register.

    They open the toy in eye shot of the cashier, then immediately attempt to pay, making sure the cash/card/whatever method of payment is also clearly visible so there can be no accusations of attempting to steal it.

    Now the toy is opened, and the opener is attempting to pay, but the toy is ringing up as "Do not Sell" or some such.

    What is the most likely outcome here?

    Also, what if they (after opening it) only hand the cashier the box, while keeping the toy in their hands? (Once again, keeping everything clearly visible so no one can say that theft was attempted.)

    Can the store employees forcefully take it from them if they clearly intend to pay, and the merchandise isn't returnable anyway?

    Walk me through the various possibilities.
     
  2. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    I sense being banned from stores in your future.
     
  3. marshall dusty

    marshall dusty Well-Known Member

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    they can't say you stole it. even if you are and you're still walking by them and past them it's not theft. It's up until the point you pass the exit doors. some stores call it past the 'point of sale' then the theft is going to be obvious. but that's up to the security in the store and not the cashier. most stores have a no hero policy. where i work, even if i witness you steal in my face and you're walking out i cannot do anything. i have to let security know and even after i let them know, they cannot do anything because they didn't witness the steal. the person walks away free.


    but as far as the toy removed from packaging and then scanning, they'd still keep it i guess since it says do not sell. they'd probably toss it back and keep it for clearance once they can sell.
     
  4. Computron34

    Computron34 Butt + Hurt = TF Fans

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    I would think that since technically the items hadn't been purchased yet, they could argue theft.
     
  5. ErechOveraker

    ErechOveraker I'm with Plowking.

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    Wow, and people call Hot Wheels collectors creeps around here.

    Patience, fellow nerds, you'll be asshole deep in robit-movie toys soon enough.
     
  6. T-Logicon

    T-Logicon assembles the drones

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    yes
     
  7. grimlock1972

    grimlock1972 "No Mas" My Wallet

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    this + they would take the item and sell it as damaged goods or a reduced price and potentialy theft charges could come dependingonthe way the laws in a given country are worded
     
  8. TranstechCat

    TranstechCat Cybernetic Chimpanzee

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    :lol 

    That's what I'd like to avoid actually.
     
  9. marshall dusty

    marshall dusty Well-Known Member

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    i dunno, after some sports, my friends and i go to a gas station or convinience store for drinks. i'll open it right in there and start drinking and then i'll go and pay. this happens a lot at grocery stores. (i work at one) where a customer is shopping with their small child and they start crying because they want a cookie or something. the parent then usually opens a package up from their cart and give the child a cookie to calm them down. we're used that and they always end up paying.

    there are different rules and guidelines per store i guess, but yeah it's not stealing until you walk out the door without purchasing at my place of work.
     
  10. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Ask yourself if it's really worth all the hassle for toys that will be freely available in about three weeks time. It's not even like you'll be able to brag about having them first, thanks to all the stolen Chinese toy reviewers.
     
  11. BrokenSVT

    BrokenSVT It's not broken anymore.

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    They absolutely can call that one of two things:

    1) Attempted theft. You had an item, removed it from the package(partially or fully) and headed toward the front of the store. If I wanted to argue that you were heading for the exit, the police would back me up on that point.

    2) Vandalism/Destruction of private property. You don't own the merchandise, my business does. Until you present and clear tender for said item, it's mine for all intents and purposes. You destroy my property, and thereby my ability to sell it at full value, you face charges.

    In a nutshell, you get in trouble either way.
     
  12. krazy83karl

    krazy83karl Well-Known Member

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    I've been in retail for 10 years now but this really has to do with the computer system and not a particular company. If the cash register comes up do not sell they will tell you sorry and it can't be sold. It doesn't ring up in the system, there isn't a way to make it sell. Well technically each system should have a generic code you can type in when things don't ring up and you need a drastic measure, but usually only a manager will know that code.

    My guess is its really up to luck. If you get a dumb cashier and an easily flustered manager you may be able to pressure them into pushing it through for you if you play the act stupid its on the shelf card, but I'd say if you get a decent employee and/or manager who knows the system and doesn't crack, you'll get the I'm sorry excuse.

    You wouldn't want to open the package, that won't work in your favor. As I am a manager for a retail store I definitely frown upon packages being open before being paid for and even if you can't pin the theft issue, they'll take the package away from you.
     
  13. TranstechCat

    TranstechCat Cybernetic Chimpanzee

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    See, this is why I'm asking.

    Where is the line?

    I too have opened things before paying and never had a problem. The difference is that it's always been food items. However, I've been witness to other, more "substantial" items being opened for various reasons with absolutely no issues. (Guys in electronics opening stuff to make sure some plug is the right size or something.)

    The only thing that makes this situation unique is that the item in question has a high likelihood of ringing up as "do not sell".

    Does that make a substancial difference in whether or not it becomes an issue?
     
  14. marshall dusty

    marshall dusty Well-Known Member

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    hard to say what that line is. where i work, the moment you pass the exit doors, where you touch the outside sidewalk without purchasing. you just robbed us.

    What if you had that toy...and your wife, mom, girlfriend, someone you know said hey, go get a cart for me. you have that toy or anything else and you're heading towards the cart. is that attempted theft since it's at the front of the store? If they tried that on me, trust me i'm fighting that with the law.

    This is why where we work, once you're outside, you're fucked. the security in our store are undercover posing as customers and once they see you steal they follow you, up until they go outside then they can approach you and declare the situation.

    again, i dont work at a target or ever have. anyone who works at target/walmart have a similar policy?
     
  15. BrokenSVT

    BrokenSVT It's not broken anymore.

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    The line, by law in every state that I've worked in, is when you show intent. Showing intent is defined in each of those states as walking TOWARD the exit doors. The definition is left quite vague intentionally, as it's been explained to me by officers of the Law. With this vague explanation, one could argue that the moment you open the item(or pick up the item for that matter), and leave the aisle/area that you found it in; you're heading toward the exit. This bends the law in the favor of the owner of the goods; in our case, the store.

    Food items are no different, yet as has been stated there's(for some odd reason) an assumed higher threshhold of acceptance it seems.
     
  16. marshall dusty

    marshall dusty Well-Known Member

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    stores will need to put all their carts in back or a corner where an exit isn't available. i've seen people walk back towards the exit to get a cart or basket with private property. there's also that intent that the customer will continue shopping.

    that's the reason i shop online for most of my shit. customer service is shitty most of the time. i hate going to stores and they need to see your receipt when you walk out. when i really need something in my hand i'll go and purchase it. 95 percent of customers could be honest while the 5 percent are shady/shoplifters. because of that, they inconvenience 95 percent of custy's to get that 5 percent.

    i've only worked at one retail store in one state so you have much more experience than me Broken. I've never shoplifted in my life but if i have product and im going back for a cart and they think im about to rob them then im going to ride that case with the law and court.


    I dont want to get trans' thread locked by digressing. but yeah it's a tough situation if you're 'caught' try to steal. if you're heading towards the exit with a credit card in your hand, that should be in your favor as well that you had intent to pay.


    as far as opening the product, it's true it isn't your product until you pay but i feel that it isn't stealing until you pass the point of sale.

    at the same time if you feel that you need to start a thread and ask other people or you feel that it may be shady, then i guess it is and forget about it.

    like they said earlier, the toys will be out in 3 weeks.
     
  17. TranstechCat

    TranstechCat Cybernetic Chimpanzee

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    Some of you are missing the point here.

    The question isn't about it being "shady" or whether or not it treads on shaky moral grounds or whatever. The question is whether or not opening the item increases the chances of them "letting it go" despite it ringing up as "do not sell".

    I keep hearing stories of people finding ROTF deluxes/voyagers/leaders and then being told that they can't buy them (and the cashier/manager/whoever taking the item(s) back to the stock room and proceeding to remove ALL ROTF stuff from the shelves) because they ring up as do-not-sell or "recalled" etc...

    If the toy is already opened though when someone attempts to purchase such an item, how does that affect the situation?
     
  18. mecha

    mecha Banned

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    bingo!
     
  19. ErechOveraker

    ErechOveraker I'm with Plowking.

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    Really?
     
  20. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    No matter what silly little thing you plan on doing the fact of the matter is that any possible street date fine the store might get pegged with is not worth taking the $20 loss on a toy.

    If the store is saying you can not buy the item you can not but the item. Whether you open, lick it, wipe your ass with it, you can not buy it till may 30. It is the stores property until the transaction is completed

    For references sake I am an assistant front end manager and have been in retail for 7 years
     

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