Human Advantages Over Transformers?

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Spunky, Jul 19, 2011.

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  1. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    Well, from my understanding, Cybertronian society has and is on the brink of callapse. Maybe, it can be said its collapsed already. The very reason Megatron was attempting to revive zombie Cybertronians to take over the planet was because he no longer has an army under his command. If he did, why would he go through the trouble of obtaining dark energon and making all those zombies?

    In a way, I think Cybertronians are a dying race.



    As for Megatron having 4 million years of experience, I'd have to ask in what way he has demonstrated his outstanding military skills and tactics recently. I'd certainly be cautious about Megatron's abilities, but so far he hasn't demonstrated any above human tactical abilities or experience.



    As for out teching the Cybertronians, given that Mech has already obtained technology from Cybertronians, anything is possible. How long until Mech decides they realize that they can obtain immense political power, and rally the human race behind them by sharing the information and declaring themselves the savior of mankind.

    Would earth's governments be that ignorant to let alien technology out of their grasp as well. Especially when these aliens have been running around the planet battling it out?

    As for indigenous tribes against european settlers, I don't think that applies to the current state of Cybertronians. From what I've seen, Megatron has no capital, or nation to command. That is far different from the European settlers which were able to send wave after wave of men.

    And there have been cases were indigenous people were able to defeat european conquerors. For example, Lapu lapu of the Philippines defeated Magellan of Spain, when Magellan first attempted to conquer Philippine islands. Magellan had cannons, metal amour and guns at his disposal.

    The Philippine islands where indeed conquered later on, but it was after multiple reinforcements from Spain. And it was after the death of Lapu lapu. And not totally by force, the tribes of the Philippines did not unite and some accepted Spanish rule freely.

    Unlike Spain, Megatron doesn't seem to have an army or a nation to back him up. It seems the Decepticons are scattered across the galaxy.

    The conquest of the Americas is unlike Megatron's battles on earth, because the Europeans were able to establish colonies, breeding populations that enabled the increase of man power in time. Early on, many of these colonies were also reinforced by their mother nations until they were strong enough to stand alone and break off. Cybertronians don't seem to have these advantages.



    And from what I can recall, at times even the natives assisted the first colonies, introducing to them native food crops, making alliances. Corn for example was introduced to Columbus and other settlers, allowing the settlers to grow their own food. And an alliance is something Megatron seems unwilling to do.
     
  2. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    I think this also means that human society may change faster than Cybertronians. As the older generation ages, they are pressured by nature to pass on the torch to the next generation. The newer generation may not hold all the ideals of the past generation or may have a different point of view on decisions.

    This may have some negative and positive effects. But if change is necessary, human society may change faster due to need.

    Cybertronians on the other hand may not empower the next generation, because the older generation would be fit to serve indefinitely.


    And from what I can tell, Cybetronians aren't even able to produce a next generation anymore. And their organized society seems to be gone.
     
  3. Snark

    Snark Well-Known Member

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    Humans can totally order a milkshake at the local diner. Yeah, I'd like to see you try that Megatron.
     
  4. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    We have noses.
     
  5. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    IN fact, if we go into real mustache twirling, top hat wearing, monocle sporting and dirigible riding villainy, Megatron could just use some McGuffin super weapon to blow up the moon which affects our weather and then just of the Evulz he and Soundwave can start lobbing what remains of the moon at Earth while drinking brandy.

    This is true.
     
  6. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    But that would imply competence from the bad guys. That alone would ruin almost any sci fi franchise.
     
  7. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Maybe that's why there's a vocal fanbase for a cartoon that takes place during the great war, so that the Decepticon's ability to wage an effective war is showcased, as is the Autobot's tenacity to stop them.

    Makes sense to me anyway.
     
  8. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Dunno. I despise prequels on general principle.. :p 
     
  9. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    Which is what makes the Decepticons so awesome, and more particularly Megatron:D 


    True, besides I think the war is better shown in flashbacks and such.
     
  10. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    The only problem with that is that it makes any prowess the main characters talk about Enemy X having is all informed ability. The Decepticons need to win a few battles, otherwise they'll simply fall into villain decay.
     
  11. Crazy Ramjetty

    Crazy Ramjetty marvel's got it good

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    humans created the transformers in 1984, thus, we are their gods
     
  12. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    No argument here:) 


    Well they actually have planet destroying capability it's not just a miracle plot point that was used once it is a known Decepticon capability on their battle cruisers in IDW. I am sure the prime series has something of a similar nature like Trypticon station/The Nemesi


    Great points, only real issues I have is that Megatron would have to be a good commander as he is maintained power for so long and kept the war in a stalemate and the zombie army I think would be utilized more to overwhelm the Autobots rather then earth in particular.
     
  13. Kungfu Dinobot

    Kungfu Dinobot Well-Known Member

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    So, Rob, are you ignoring me, or are you incapable of answering my stinging mot juste?
     
  14. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    Trypticon does have an orbital weapon in WFC, but we also aren't sure about its full functionality. Even the autobots don't seem too concerned about it.

    Also, during WFC the game they even destroyed its conversion cog forcing it to revert into robot mode. And he might be unable to use it in ship mode as well. So my guess, the damage from WFC still remains and Trypticon is unable to use any orbital weapons.

    What reason could Megatron have not to use his orbital weapons any way? The mere fact that he's still orbiting around in Prime's timeline, instead of layin siege on the planet suggests that he doesn't seem to have the capability.


    Also, If Megatron had any battleships remaining, I think he would have contacted them by now. So its either, he doesnt' have them or he no longer contact them. Or they just don't want to follow him. Regardless, its a blow to his forces and power.

    Also, considering that Trypticon was a space station originally meant for research purposes, I have to wonder how prepared for war the Decepticons of Prime continuity really were. From what I can tell, the Decepticons themselves only captured military hardware or just changed existing machinery, meant for other purposes into killing machines.

    From what I can tell, Decepticons of Prime continuity aren't a space faring conquering race, but a rag tag rebellion that destroyed their entire society.
    This means that they don't have the experience of conquering entire civilizations. And I would also think that they don't really have the resources, weaponry and other equipment designed for conquering planets.

    They may have been a formidable space faring power during their golden age, but I think they were after the Decepticon uprising they had lost a lot of that power.

    In fact, the reason they may be on earth, is probably just because they're running low on resources such as energon.


    I'd have to disagree with the idea of overwhelming the autobots, because there are only around 5 autobots left on earth. The fact that Optimus Prime seemingly sent a transmission into space means that his forces are also scattered across the galaxy.

    Also if the zombies were meant for Optimus, wouldn't Megatron have decided to assist his ressurected zombies in the valley battle during Darkness Rising? Why did he just throw them away? At certain points during that battle the zombies had pinned Optimus down, why didn't Megatron take advantage of that?

    Why not destroy the existing autobots one at a time. Wasn't it shown in Darkness Rising that even vehicons can kill off an autobot if its a battle of one to many.

    Why waste so much energon on a space bridge, when he can just use the same amount of resources as bombs? Trying to bomb the autobots seems to be just as effective.

    Also, would the zombies themselves be fit for hunting down the autobots when they are shown to be slow moving creatures that several kids can outrun. And the autobots have the ability to escape from overwhelming numbers via ground bridge, what use will the zombies be then?

    Also even in Darkness rising, it was shown that the zombies were unfit to go one on one against an autobot, considering Prime and Ratchet destroyed countless zombies, where as a Vehicon knocks down Optimus with a tree in con job.

    And if the Decepticons truly find humans insignificant, why not challenge the entire planet, empty the planet of the pesky humans? Surely destroying a town or two wouldn't be that hard for the Decepticons. In that way, the Decepticons don't need to steal to get a magnifying lense for their heat ray, or an extra transmitter for the now destroyed space bridge.

    As for Megatron's military prowess, since he kept his power all this time. I'd have to question that, given that he once had an army of Decepticons behind him. And he doesn't have that now. He has lost most of his military power already, so I think saying he retained power for so long is not applicable to him.
     
  15. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    No not at all I just missed your reply sorry, don't even know what you are referring to you could have always pmed me. laser pointer? Did I miss something? What was this a prime episode or something?


    Totally right from what we have seen from prime they are limited and it would be unfair for me to utilize thing from IDW as it is a different universe all together. Good discussion:) 
     
  16. Kungfu Dinobot

    Kungfu Dinobot Well-Known Member

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    Okay, Rob, allow me to rephrase that question.


    You said this:

    To which I reply

    A) Megatron, the guy that raided Israel solo, got hurt by a handheld laser gun that physicists would agree cannot even scratch a lightly-armored vehicle. That really destroys the idea that only the Autobots can stop him and his Marauding thugs.

    B) You said that Megatron was using many cunning methods to beat his enemies, but throughout 12 issues I have never seen him behaving like anything other than a japanese movie monster with Hitler's voice.


    If I sounded harsh earlier, sorry.
     
  17. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    A) I think the laser gun was implied to be based on Shockwave's arm (just look at it!) so I don't think it was hard to believe that it could punch a whole in Megatron's armored skull. I think a level of wonder is required to believe that it could function but, we are reading about alien robots that turn into cars here, and tape decks:) , plus having a human be the one who delivers the critical shot and prime giving the death blow adds a nice touch to the scene, a sense of unity.


    B) Megatons plan to place New York city hostage I thought was actually a pretty inventive move, as well as making our guidedd weapons useless and monitoring the military since the beginning (the missle pod truck can't remember his name). Add to that using earth as a distraction to weed out the psychopaths with in his ranks (kill the monster he created) and you have a linear path to Megatron's idea of peace.



    No worries about being harsh I thought I said something that may have been rude or insulting, and I try and make it a point to be polite as I am a firm believer in being polite to my fellow transfan despite there faction allegiance:D .
     
  18. Solrac333

    Solrac333 G1 got it right!

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    Humans squish easily. That's an advantage, right?
     
  19. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    Well, since humans have skin instead of hard shells, does this mean that the average human can be a bit more flexible than most Cybertronians?

    I mean look at all the human contortionists.

    Or maybe we can squeeze into tinier openings even if Cybertronians were to be scaled down to our size. Given that they have hard outer shells. That could be an advantage if forced to crawl in tight spaces.

    I'd also like to know how sensitive the senses of a Cybertronian are, or are they even the same as ours? For example, do they even have a sense of smell? Because, with Miko being able to sneak right through the watchful eye of Arcee and Bulkhead repeatedly, its starting to seem that aside from Soundwave, humans have much more sensitive senses than Cybertronians.

    Maybe its because their senses are so adapted or specialized into checking for large objects(after all, they live in a world of giants), so much so that they have difficulty tracking creatures far smaller than themselves. Maybe that's why Scraplets are also so effective against them.

    I mean, we ourselves have difficulty hearing the footsteps or sensing creatures smaller than ourselves such as cats, rats and crawling insects, so much so that they can sneak up on us if we're unprepared. Why not the same for Cybertronians?
     
  20. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    Heh heh. :D  Sorry for the thread necro. But I was browsing around iO9 and I found another article on why life on earth has limited lifespans. Based on the article, it may be that mortality in organisms isn't a flaw in the design, but an actual advantage. An evolutionary advantage that enables the species to prosper by sacrificing the older generation to make room for the newer generation.

    Computer model reveals what would happen if humans became immortal

    I especially like this quote.

    So, if becoming a race of immortals can possibly become detrimental to a species, should humans pursue it? Or is there a way around it?


    Thinking about it, applying this to Transformers Prime, if life on earth evolved mortality because the earth has an ever changing environment. Life on Cybertron may have developed immortality because their environments were relatively stable. After all, there really is no need to change from an older model to a newer model if the requirements of life on the planet don't change. They had Primus watching over them after all.
     
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