Human Advantages Over Transformers?

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Spunky, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Spunky

    Spunky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Posts:
    983
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    In TF Prime, it seems Transformers are superior to us in just about every way. They are larger, tougher, and stronger. They can survive in the vacuum of space. They live longer than us.

    But are there any characteristics that humans possess that may be superior to Transformers? Anything? Even one tiny thing?

    Well, TFs in this series don't need to breath. They can survive without oxygen, but is that really such a great trait in the end? Yeah, it's nice to be able to go longer than 5 minutes at least without oxygen and not suffer brain damage. But like their Energon, oxygen is our fuel. However, unlike their Energon, our fuel appears to be far more abundant than theirs and all around us. It's not like Energon is found throughout the universe and everywhere on Earth. I wonder if their bodies can survive without Energon for long either. And since it isn't all that abundant, though they can survive in a vacuum, could they face a far greater danger of running out of fuel and starving to death than we do?

    Also, I wonder if our bodies are more efficient than theirs requiring less energy pound per pound to function.

    Also, Arcee did mention that humans multiply. So I am wondering if humans have a much higher reproductive rate than Transformers and are able to be much more numerous as a result. I am wondering if it is far easier for humans to replace eachother than for TFs to do so? Could this explain why TFs haven't really recovered their numbers after the virus Megatron engineered wiped out millions? Could they be facing extinction as a species?

    I wonder if we are also more resistant to diseases than they are since our planet if full of deadly viruses and bacteria evolution has equiped us to deal with over millions of years. From the episode, "Sick Mind", TFs can get viruses too. They are probabely not DNA OR RNA carbon-based viruses but something else. But does Cybertron have as many deadly pathogens as Earth has that the TFs have adapted to over the years? Or are pathogens uncommon and new to them whereas our immune systems fight and destroy thousands and deadly strains all the time?

    I mean do humans, as weak as we may be, have advantages over TFs? If so, I wonder if TF Prime will do an episode on this subject.
     
  2. The F.N.G.

    The F.N.G. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Posts:
    2,526
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1
    Scraplets eat metal. We are not made of metal. Thus, Scraplets are not interested in us, and we can get into areas where they are present without being eaten.
     
  3. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Posts:
    13,629
    News Credits:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +30
    I'd just like to say that after ROTF I simply loved when Fowler's machine gun couldn't even scratch Soundwave's drone.


    In yo' face HUMAN MILITARY DUDES!
     
  4. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Posts:
    16,839
    News Credits:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    297
    Location:
    Ararat, NC
    Likes:
    +1,464
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Flickr:
    Just look up MECH. They did capture a transformer and even started to take one apart to work on their own version.
     
  5. Skottech

    Skottech Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Posts:
    876
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    117
    Likes:
    +4
    & Fowler's three choppers only managed to clean Airachid

    one human (or at least M.E.C.H.) advantage are those disruptor rounds.

    humans small size could be an asset in some situations
     
  6. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,636
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +5
    If humans gain weapons that can penetrate Cybertronian armour like in the film, I think Cybertronians could get ripped apart by superior numbers.

    Humans would end up like bees; swarming the cybertronian and they'd be shooting from almost every angle.

    There may also be forms of technology that they can't use or locations they can't go to. Many of our technologies were built for surviving in the planet, but they were only built for human hands. There are probably buttons, consoles, remotes and other tools that may be difficult for Cybertronian hands. There are buildings on earth that are made for humans and arent fit for Cybertronians. Bulkhead or Arcee may end up breaking the escalator in robot form or get trapped in an elevator.

    Their size may also prevent them from going through various locations, especially with large metal bodies.

    I also wonder how they're alloy based bodies will survive going through swamps, deserts, glaciers etc. They'd probably end up sinking in the mud if they pass through swamp lands or watery locations. They could end up having debris enter their bodies if they go through the desert. I'm not so sure they can travel through glaciers and not risk the entire thing falling on top of them. They might break the ice if they try to cross a frozen lake.

    There are probably also a lot more places to hide when you are human.
     
  7. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    2,855
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +10
    I suppose our numbers and ability to multiply, in IDW they say that their are less then 10,000 cybertronians in the universe so that's certainlky pro on our (human race) side

    I would not consider our military munitions as much of an advantage at least not for very long considering the adaptability of the cybertronians race. If we had something that could hurt them (like high explosives or nuclear weapons) they would probably adapt to it pretty quick or simply find a way to avoid it (AHM), sorry not a fan of the whole incendiary weapons being a perminate solution on a species particularly designed for adaptability and extreme tempatures (arctic and planetary reentry).
     
  8. doomboy536

    doomboy536 Universe Onslaught fanboy

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Posts:
    7,370
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +25
    Ebay:
    I think it's very telling that when Breakdown and Bulkhead got cornered by MECH forces they were seen recoiling and trying to shield themselves from MECH attacks for at least a few moments. That means that humans have the ability to hurt Transformers, otherwise the Cybertronians would've instantly flipped out on a rampage. It would be interesting to see what would happen with more humans with heavier weaponry...
     
  9. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,636
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +5
    I think your undereestimating how fast people make better tools to kill. It doesn't seem that Cybertronian's technology evolve at a faster rate than ours. If our technology catches up we'd also have countless scientists & other experts making newer and better killing tools, each building on the progress of those that came before. The human race, imo has a vast resevoir of talent, skill and resources. And they pretty much have limitless desires.

    If I understand correctly that new Cybertronians can only be produced from the allspark, then I guess that's a big weakness. I think this would mean they can't recover their numbers without the allspark. Also without the allspark, the adaptability of the Cybertronian race depends on the tenacity of their preexisting members. Humans however have countless unique individuals, with different traits that may help it survive. And humans have the ability to make more. Also, humans are still made up of organized social structures, designed to provide newer and better technology as well as resources and manpower where its needed.

    If Cybertronians are scattered and disorganized then there is the possibility that their technological progress is at a standstill. They won't have the necessary tools, individuals and organizations to collect, store and redistribute knowledge. Some of their technology might even be lost as more of their artifacts are destroyed and their people killed. Many of their members might even be unable to get their needed resources to survive let alone change their situation. If that's the case, then they are in their 'Dark Ages'.

    Also related to this:
    http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics-neanderthal-110718.html
    http://io9.com/5822357/confirmed-all-non+african-people-are-part-neanderthal
    http://www.vancouversun.com/technol...rn+humans+part+Neanderthal/5120856/story.html

    It seems humans have already been known to take from other species to survive.
     
  10. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    2,855
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +10
    Not at all I think we as a species are nothing short of incredible however, we are comparing us to a (mythical) species that has a similar drive as we do (in relation to there human like personality) and have been around a great deal longer then we have, look at the numbers;

    Homo sapiens- a little over 200,000 years
    Cybertronians - well over 5,000,000 years

    Not to mention they still not only evolve and utilize knowledge that came before them but also have had a longer history for development. We on the other hand didn't develop and reach Behavioral modernity till around 50,000 yeats ago.

    Take humans infancy and us having about five or six thousand years of real development, with eras of mass ignorance (dark ages) versus a species that has had millions of years of constant development and we are behind, and that's if we just look at the numbers forget the possibility of intellectual superiority that the cybertronians may posses.

    This is going to be a fun discussion.:) 
     
  11. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,636
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +5
    As much as Cybertronian track record shows how long they have surived, it doesn't necessarily mean they have an advantage over humans.

    There long term survival may also be due to other conditions such as long term unchanging conditions of their home planet of Cybertron, whereas earth has had fluctuating climates and other conditions all through out its existence.

    Also history itself is filled of examples where younger societies have been able to defeat older societies with rich culture. Examples of this was when Britain forced China into a trade agreement during the Opium War or when Alexander the Great was able to destroy the Persian empire. Or when the visigoths ransacked Rome during 410.

    Cybertronian track record may be good, but it does not mean they're unbeatable. Nor does it take into account the current condition of their forces.


    I still haven't found a clear example of this. From what I can tell much of their technology is still scattered across the planet. Examples of which are the polarity gauntlet and the energon harvester. They're powerful weapons, but it also shows much of they're own weaponry have been lost and are not at their disposal. It also shows they have lost the ability to manufacture more of these weaponry, given how much they wanted to obtain it.

    They also don't seem to have access to their Cybertronian archives or the data net, without it, their knowledge is fragmented and would probably be only available to a special few. And these special few could end up getting killed in battle.

    From what I've seen, the Decepticons themselves are finding it difficult to find spare parts. This means they lack manufacturing ability. Starscream himself was forced to steal from humans to enact his plan to melt the arctic etc.

    And if I'm correct, even their ground bridge/space briding technology was just rediscovered technology. If I'm right about my knowledge from Exodus and WFC, much of their space bridges were decomissioned near the end of the golden age of Cybertron.

    After which their species and society fell into steady decay, this brought about the Decepticon uprising. From my understanding, this means they've been losing knowledge and technology even then. And their race has been losing the ability to innovate and progress long before their current war broke out. If so, what more now?


    As much as humans are far behind, that would depend on whether Cybertronians are able to keep their technology secret from humans. But as we've seen with Mech, they are unable to. Cybertronians on earth don't seem to clean up their mess. And with their lost technology supposedly all over the planet, its surprising that humans haven't found them yet.

    And from what I've seen so far, Cybertronians are unable to manufacture any more of their special technolgy. But humans with their current resources may be able to.

    From what I've seen in Prime I can't say Cybertronians are drastically more intelligent or creative to surpass humans. I also can't say that the few remaining geniuses that they have available would be able to surpass communities of countless talented and ingenius of individuals that humans have at their disposal.
     
  12. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Posts:
    1,636
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +5
    If there is a battle between Cybertronians and humans, humans could start using scraplets as a biological weapon against Cybertronians, imo.

    I think humans might have enough alternatives to metal such as carbon fiber, ceramics and various plastics to outlast Cybertronians.

    And if the cybonic plague only infects Cybertronians, I think humans could use that against Cybertronians as well.

    The animosity between autobots and decepticons is another advantage of humans, imo. They are so desperate to use new methods and technology to kill each other that they make their entire race vulnerable to other species. Their tools to kill each other can be used by other species, and their battles reveal their weaknesses to other races.

    I'd think this advantage goes both ways, but Cybertronians don't seem to think of humans as much of a threat. That's what I understood from how Megatron reacted to breakdown's capture. If that's the case, would they take the time to study human weaknesses?



    I also think, humans reliance on vehicles is a bit of an advantage in some ways. Not much though .For example, if a tire bursts and the wheel is damaged or a jet is shot down. The human can still leave the vehicle, the pilot can still eject from the plane. But for a Cybertrnian, that's already a flesh wound I think. Humans have a tendency to not truly commit our bodies into conflict, instead we use vehicles, gadgets and machines to do it for us, or to interact with harsh environments. If these break, they're replacable or even disposable. For cybertronians, the cost might be a bit higher.
     
  13. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    2,855
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +10
    You make some great arguments and I very much enjoyed reading them however, much of the examples given are either societies that are on the brink collapse prior to attack (Rome), or are a matter of military superiority (Alexander against the Persians).

    As for Mech I look forward to seeing them develop but as seen in Prime it takes Alot of effort to bring down one Transformer can you imagine in army. I thought All Hail Megatron handled the "us versus them" account quite well; the Decepticons utilized methods that castrated our forces and they were wise to forms of attack such as nuclear, McCarthy did well remembering that Megatron is a military commander with 4 million years of experience under his belt . In addition Megatron was stalling and could easily have taken out the whole planet with one of their battle cruisers. I think of the human race in the transformers universe as the Indigenous tribes against the European settlers, if not what would be the point of the Autobots.

    With respect to the weapons and technology they could be limited based on the basic resources that are provided on earth, of course that is just speculation. Are best advantage still lies in our numbers as said by prowl 6 billion of them (humans) 10 thousand of us (cybertronians) but we are certainly going to out tech them, at least not without help, cue Autobots :) 
     
  14. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Posts:
    11,860
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +128
    No, but shit I would't want to have any metal pins, plates, braces or any of the other medical uses of metal inside the body when you tun those things loose.
     
  15. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Posts:
    11,860
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +128
    After which the Decepticons retreat into orbit and start lobbing asteroids at the planet's surface. Game over, red rover.
     
  16. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    2,855
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +10
    See that's the issue even if by some miracle we beat them in a ground war they could just bombard us from space, and we do not have any defense from an orbital attack.
     
  17. updatedude

    updatedude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    973
    Trophy Points:
    146
    Likes:
    +0
    I'm actually of the opinion that there's no need for humans to be equal or superior to Transformers.

    From a species to species standpoint, there's no need for a rat to be equal or superior to a human in every aspect. Similarly, there's no need for humans to be superior to a TF.

    Pound for pound, if a human were sized up, our body structures wouldn't be able to withstand our enormous size, and a sized down TF still has strength and toughness superior to our own. But you know what? I'm fine with that. I'm fine with Superman being more super then regular men. It works for the fiction.

    Anyway, back to the whole species comparison thing. A rat is more agile than a human and has better senses for dark environments. A human is able to digest organic matter whereas (most) Transformers are unable to. We're better able to naturally survive in our ecological niche compared to a TF, just as rats are better suited to their niche compared to us.

    We humans can still crush a rat (if we can catch it) just as a TF can do the same to us.

    But in the end, there is nothing wrong with being "inferior", especially when put up against a mythical race with abilities that border or exceed those of mythical gods. We humans tend to find "superior" things to be "cool". So the point's to use that to make the show cool and entertaining.
     
  18. Kungfu Dinobot

    Kungfu Dinobot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Posts:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +0
    Your'e kidding, right?

    Megatron allowed himself to be bitchslapped by a laser pointer, yeah, real hard to take down there.

    Methods? They were just blowing shit up like Movie monsters.
     
  19. Spunky

    Spunky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Posts:
    983
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    Good points. But humans are on the verge of being able to do at least one thing: genetically enhance themselves.

    Since I like the X-Files, I am thinking back to the supersoldiers in that series. These guys were genetically enhanced humans who had alien DNA in them. They were practically unstopable. You can decapitate them and they would just grow a new head or put their old one back on. You can run over them with a car. Throw them in a trash compactor. They would just heal super fast and keep on going. Even explosions didn't kill them. And they were much stronger than normal humans. They were so strong they could tear through metal with their hands and knock a normal human's head off. I think radiation didn't do much to them and they could even breath under water.

    Now if Silas was able to turn all of his troops into those X-Files supersoldiers, I think the Autobots would be in BIG trouble! BIG! Those things are practically indestructible. The only way to kill one is to expose one to high magnetic fields which rips them apart since their DNA has iron attached to it. In fact, high magetic fields kill the aliens and their black oil life force whose DNA comprises the supersoldiers. Wait a minute, the Autobots do have that magnetic guantlet now. Hmmm. No, but really. What if the Autobots were going up against a bunch of genetically enhanced human super soldiers and reversed engineered mechs? They could be in BIG trouble indeed!
     
  20. Proxima

    Proxima Goddess of Darkness

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Posts:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    I think that humans have one other feature (Sans Miko for some stupid reason) is the ability to learn and develop faster due to our shorter lifespans.
     

Share This Page