How to make a movie with out a script

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by MegaHavok, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2002
    Posts:
    4,506
    News Credits:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +18
    Was Rotf ever written or just outlined???.

    So I love Transformers concept art. Every time I see it I save to my hard drive right away. So tonight I just about creamed myself with all the Ben Proctor stuff. However, there was one thing that kept catching my eye: The dates on the images. Though it seams obvious now it hadn’t occurred to me that artist were already working on concept art just 6 months after the first movie. When one takes this time to remember that there was also a writers strike going on at the time it real sets in stone that story was never a major consideration for this movie. Or at the very least the writers had a very small part in it. I have compiled a list of interesting comments made during pre-production that were posted on tfw as they happened. I am also adding the dates of some of the concept art. Lets take a walk down memory lane:

    10-10-07:
    “Last week, we reported that Transformers scribes Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci were in negotiations to return to write the sequel, along with screenwriter Ehren Kruger. According to the Los Angeles Times, the trio has now signed on write the screenplay in a deal that may ultimately pay out more than $8 million. Interestingly, the article also suggests director Michael Bay has started pulling together digital pre-visualization designs of Transformers that didn't make it into the first film”
    Writers Signed for Transformers 2 - Transformers News

    Based on concept art we saw from this first movie we can determine what some of these “pre-visualization designs” are. We know that ravage was originally in the first movie, Soundwave evolved to frenzy, Arcee was cut, and Bay’s desire to do something with and aircraft carriers. Ben Proctor designed “Ejector” in April of 2007. So it is not a stretch to consider him the inspiration for the kitchen scene. At some point between this date and the start of the strike a “fine outline” is written and turned in to Bay.

    10-12-07: Josh Nizzi’s Longhaul concept art is already being incorporated

    11-01-07: Fallen rough character studies being worked on

    11-3-07: Writers strike starts

    11-07-07: Sideswipe concept art

    11-07-07: Production designer chosen
    “Today ComingSoon.net reports that the new production designer for the Transformers Movie sequel has been hired. Nigel Phelps,”
    Production Designer for Transformers Movie Sequel Announced - Transformers News

    11-07-07 Prime power up concept being explored

    11-12-07 Model T concept art: It is interesting that the idea of an old bot and Primes combo are being worked on at the same time

    11-?-07 Wheelie concept is created
    I cant read the exact date but know that this early on we have Wheelie in the bike shop with the glue traps as seen in the movie

    11-27-07 Demolishor attacking a freeway concept art

    11-30-07 Reedman concept art

    12-multiple dates-07: Multiple characters are designed but eventually dropped from the movie despite being submitted to Hasbro. Was Habro under the impression that depth charge, breakaway, and Springer were in the movie?

    12-17-07 Ravage design very close to final

    12-18-07 Prime’s power up mode with sr-71 combination is very final to movie design

    12-31-07 Megatron is redesigned with his tank form

    12-31-07
    “Transformers 2 will be coming soon. The new robots are really really unique and there are a lot of them this time.”
    News From Michael Bay: More Transformers To Be In Transformers 2 - Transformers News

    01-02-08: Twins individual modes pretty much done including their jacked up faces

    01-03-08: Devastator combined mode study, Individual modes are worked on throughout the month including unused ideas

    01-08-08
    “they current have a very fine outline to work off of but no complete screenplay. He also states that director Michael Bay has already designed "stuff" already and that he has quite a few great sequences imagined.”
    Transformers 2 Scheduled to Start Filming on June 2, 2008 - Transformers News

    1-10-08: Jetfire’s design is completed

    01-18-08
    "We knew from early on that the writers strike could get ugly, and this has got to bring a little sanity to the situation," Bay said. "I can't do the movie without my writers, but I have been prepping. I'm not in the guild, but I've been writing every day.
    Michael Bay Comments on Transformers 2 Status During Writer's Strike - Transformers News

    1-25-08: The infamous twins in ice cream truck mode are shown. Shanghai mentioned

    1-22-08: Fallen earth mode concept art
    Morticycle gang worked on very early concepts based of different bikes but using wheeled bot mode theme

    1-26-08: The fallen concept art. Shows him attacking the carrier possibly in an early earth mode design

    1-30-08: Carrier destruction art worked on as seen in movie

    1-31-08: Megatron being salvaged art as seen in movie

    02-07-08: Starscream gets his tats

    2-12-08
    "I've been writing Transformers 2," said Bay. "We've got our characters all designed. I always write all my scripts, my movies anyway so at least I've got something to give the writers. It's like a template. We have a really good outline so I worked on that."
    Michael Bay Says He Already Wrote Transformers 2 - Transformers News

    2-13-08: Writer strike ends

    “Bay also made mention of a "geriatric robot" as one of the new characters”
    Variety: Bay Talks Visual Effects and Sequel - Transformers News

    02-14-2008
    “Dreamworks denies that any progress was made on Transformers 2 during the Writer's Strike”
    Dreamworks denies that any progress was made on Transformers 2 during the Writer's Strike - Transformers News

    2-15-08
    Bay counters Dreamworks claim “He says that he has staff in place including production people, art designers, and scouts.”
    Michael Bay Reponds to Claim of Dreamworks About Transformers 2 - They Are Ready - Transformers News

    2-18-08
    the core cast of the Movie is more or less decided and that their looks are more or less settled upon, based on conversations held between the writers, Michael Bay and Hasbro before the Writer's Strike, and work done by Michael Bay and Hasbro during the Writer's Strike.”
    Roberto Orci talks about Transformers 2, Starscream, and the Tone of the Sequel - Transformers News

    2-27-08: Harvester interior concept art

    2-28-08: Microwave bot concept art

    3-02-08: Harvester being built concept art

    3-15 &17-08: Rampage, Chromia and Sideways heads done but they are not yet named

    3-19-08: Pretender Alice final approved art worked on

    3-28-08: Art for the “12” is being worked on

    4-17-08: Holographic locator art. Megatron is on a crashed ship’s bridge using a computer to locate something on earth. Had Soundwave’s role not been defined yet?
    Sam’s torturing at the hands of the doctor is also being worked on


    04-15-2008:First Draft of Transformers Movie Sequel Completed
    First Draft of Transformers Movie Sequel Completed - Transformers News

    05-02-08: Library chase showing robot mode alice

    05-08-08: Cairo checkpoint art including a midget
    Diego Garcia art featuring all autobots except volt

    5-29-08: Ark interior by R. Church featuring protoorms and a still badly damaged and non-reformated megatron. Please note the art specifically says it’s the Ark

    06-02-08
    Filming starts

    03-24-2009: Writers say they wont be back
    Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman not writing Transformers 3? - Transformers News

    Say what ever what you like about the quality of the film. You might have hated it. You might of loved it. I have had major issue with this movie and looking at this time line explains almost all of them. The one thing you can not do is blame Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. That must have been one hell of an outline. This has to be the worse possible creative situation I can possibly imagine working in. Orci and Kurtzman were literally given a giant pile of completed sequences and locations and told to make it work.

    I understand the financial concerns that go into a major blockbuster and toyline missing its start date but Jesus Christ. Bay literally did what ever it took to get this movie done on time. He literally planned a movie with out a script. The man has the biggest balls known to man
     
  2. Starscreamer95

    Starscreamer95 'Civil' Nintendo Fanboy

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Posts:
    9,205
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Likes:
    +7
    You make a vaild point. It may seem like that, but I doubt it.
     
  3. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Posts:
    12,544
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +3
    A good writing team would still have been able to string that material and outline together into a nice story, IMO.
     
  4. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2002
    Posts:
    4,506
    News Credits:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +18
    Well obviously there was a script at some point before filming started. However, when you got back and re watch the movie you have to consider that almost all of the major sequences were decided, planned, and set to shoot before the script even had a rough draft. Thats why so many sequences of the movie feel disjointed and don't connect. The most perfect example of that, for me at least, is that ROTF feels like it has three beginning exposition scenes that dont connect. However they had to be included because they were already planned so they just threw in some optimus narration to try to make them flow together.

    Possibly, but somebody that talented probably wouldn't be writing a script for michael bay
     
  5. Starscream NZ

    Starscream NZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2005
    Posts:
    2,602
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +4
    Very interesting timeline, it's great to see someone has used the concept artwork to put this together.

    It's surprsingly that some of this is so old, especially Springer/Breakaway and Sideswipes inclusion.

    Sadly it seems Bay thought up some great action scenes, and seemingly told the writers "here's 3-4 awesome scenes, make a story out of it". That's not the way to approach a film. One can only hope that for TF3 things will be better. I had such high hopes for ROTF but felt let down.
     
  6. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    14,116
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +183
    I think you might be right on this one as it felt like the movie was sort of action sequences that were later stung together in a rushed script.

    I guess it's too bad they didn't move the release date until something like Christmas to perhaps come up with something a bit better. But then I guess that is one of the hazards of partnering up with Hasbro since they will want release dates that will maximize toy sales.
     
  7. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Posts:
    10,561
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +30
    I think there was an early draft, then a strike and Michael Bay having ideas of certain action scenes..so yeah, in the end, less than ideal circumstances to create a movie, which really harmed the overall product in my opinion. :( 

    It's not just Hasbro. A product this big gets its tentacles pretty much everywhere. Think of the videogames that need to appear alongside the movie for better sales, and the preserved (bought) shelf space for it. Think of the preserved time they had IMAX showings reserved for ROTF only. The marketing material. etc. etc.

    Delaying would definitely have been better for the movie itself, but most certainly not for the overall sales of ROTF across all possible media.
     
  8. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Posts:
    5,620
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +22
    I bet you're right too. I'm afraid their may be little hope for Bay to make a good movie at this point though.
     
  9. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Posts:
    23,502
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +130
    I had heard that the writers had rushed to finish a treatment before the strike, and that Bay had turned the treatment into a story outline during the strike, which the writers hurriedly turned into a script once the strike was over.

    So I think you've got some merit about a lot of design work happening before the script was finished, but I think even at that point they knew how the story was going to go, at least roughly.
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    14,116
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +183
    Very true with all the cross marketing attached to the big summer movies it's not just the movies now but everything from toys to underwear. Not that I mind getting all the goodies that come out at the same time as a movie, but I really wish it was more like video games where things can be delayed if it just needs a bit more work to make it better.
     
  11. AniProwl

    AniProwl Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Posts:
    6,231
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +11
    I agree with this.
     
  12. Terrorcon Blot

    Terrorcon Blot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Posts:
    673
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +1
    This is one of the main reasons Hollywood likes Michael Bay. He may be arrogant, egotistical, slave-driving, and other such things... but the man will do anything to turn his movies in on time and on budget... which is something few Hollywood directors do.
     
  13. Digilaut

    Digilaut My name is Drift.

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Posts:
    10,561
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +30
    I disagree.

    Right now, we don't know what exactly was set in stone and what not. I'm pretty sure the destruction of Devastator by a railgun is something Bay would come up with for a cool looking scene. How, as a writer, are you going to connect that to something and make it look cool? The scene is what it is.

    I think alot of cooler stuff could have been done with The Fallen character, as well as his relations to other characters..bu maybe those parts were already set up by Bay too?

    There is only so much two (or three) writers can 'fix' if most of the movie is already decided upon. Not to say that they are without blame, sure some things that weren't cool also came from their hands, but seeing all the circumstances (a writer's strike, a director with a special taste of his own :p , juggling around a toy company, a car company, a military, shareholders, etc.) one should not expect miracles.

    I've got these cool action scenes here that you need to write a story around. One of them is me flinging a fresh turd into a cow's face, the other is a grandpa on a stuntbike racing through an exploding mall. START WRITING! :) 
     
  14. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Posts:
    13,629
    News Credits:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +30
    I doubt it was THAT disconected, all lines fit far too well along with other details, Orci probably had a reeeeeeal close to final script before shooting started, if anything, robot lines were improvosied while keeping the same feel/meaning.
     
  15. Tyrannosaur

    Tyrannosaur 100% Sarcastic Saurian

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Posts:
    4,110
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +0
    You'd think people would forgive the mistakes in this movie because of Bay's 13 year old style of humor lol and the writers strike. ROTF had a decent plot, not good but not bad either.

    I just went to see giant robots kick ass and I nerdgasmed countless times in the theater.
    I don't care if it was good or bad, I thank Bay and Co. for bringing our beloved franchise into the spotlight, right up there with Star Wars and Star Trek and all the other geek franchises out there.

    I think this should be stickied for some reason. It's a very well done time line. Kudos to MegaHavok.
     
  16. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Posts:
    4,423
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +105
    This only confirms the reasons for the gripes I have with ROTF...

    But yeah, I agree... given the circumstances it could have turned out worse.
     
  17. Starscreamer95

    Starscreamer95 'Civil' Nintendo Fanboy

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Posts:
    9,205
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Likes:
    +7
    ROTF could have been far worse. Simple as that.

    We're lucky with what we got.
     
  18. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Posts:
    11,353
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +36
    I think I remember reading something somewhere that Bay rushed to get production in full swing like he did was because some of his crew were in danger of losing their houses because the writers strike effed up all of their work/pay schedules. If that's the case, Bay gets some kudos from me for giving something back to his workers.
     
  19. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    14,116
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +183
    I've never been a fan of statements like that. Yes I will agree that it could have been worse, I've seen Eddie Murphy movies so I know there is always something worse out there. Just because there are worse movies out there doesn't help me feel better about what we got. It could have been worse has never helped to take the sting out of disappointments like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or Van Helsing.

    Not really seeing how I'm all that lucky either. Two movies so far that watching them once was enough, the toys I really liked getting pushed off the shelves so it could be nothing but movie toys, my Decepticons turned into total jobbers, and if by some chance Hasbro introduces a really kick ass assortment of toys they are just going to get shoved aside next time we have another movie. Oh and little chance of getting a director I don't like off the projects until he runs it in the ground. Yes lucky lucky me.
     
  20. MrSoundwaveGuy

    MrSoundwaveGuy I've made a huge mistake

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2009
    Posts:
    2,636
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    I can see why Orci and Kurtzman don't want to write TF3
     

Share This Page