How to design the Transformers || The Kiki/Bouba Effect

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Paok, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. knyghtmare2021

    knyghtmare2021 The Goddamn Knyghtmare

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    ok... I see far more 'bouba' shapes on the original trilogy designs than 'kiki' Even on the Megatron. And also, I have to point all, the decepticons did not all look like Megatron with different bits glued on. The designs for Megatron, Starscream, Blackout, Bonecrusher, Brawl and Frenzy were all very distinct.
     
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  2. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist G1 and Bayformer Fan

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    Actually I like that version of Megs
    I think it's the cleanest he's ever looked so far
    (despite the movie He's in)
    ditch all the spikey stuff
    put some earth tank kibble
    and clearly visible Decepticon emblem
    as far as looks go
    Personality TF3 Megs or Sentinel would be a good choice.

    or This Guy
    7DC01B01-C860-475E-9B4C-B7C0F09ADD7B.jpeg.jpg
    He's so grumpy
    I like grumpy old man Megatron
     
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  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    Ooh, I love the tread capes on that one.
     
  4. Pichomp

    Pichomp Well-Known Member

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    Or how about this guy...
    931676EA-A50D-42FE-B756-4B2E461F692F.jpeg
    Uhhh... then again, maybe not.
     
  5. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    This video screams of "you young whipper snappers"!
     
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  6. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
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  7. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    Let's not forget that not everything is top tier quality in G1. At least not in my eye.

    G1 is infamous for sometimes slacking in their designs and resort to redecoes.
    -Bumblebee and Cliffjumper. One's yellow and one's red. Same design.

    -Prowl, Smokescreen and Bluestreak. Same problem.

    -The Seekers, all the same. Just different colour. What if someone asks who's Skywarp and who's Thundercracker? There's a possibility. It took me a while to look at who's who back then.

    -Rumble and Frenzy, just for good measure as well. Is this discussion still going on?

    There are problems from both generations. What the Bumblebee Movie is doing in terms of design seems to be a combination which perhaps already happened when Transformers Prime was around but for a wider audience which is a huge step.

    It's like we're still telling Star Wars prequel(or even sequel) fans that they don't belong in the SW fandom.
     
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  8. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    Alright, but where was G1 mentioned?
     
  9. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    Okay, I should say that it's indirect when he talks about WFC Optimus and Megatron. Especially when talking about the shapes and stuff.
     
  10. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that just a counter example, just from the history of the franchise? It so happens that the WFC designs are quite faithful to G1. But, still... Why is that relevant? It's not a comparison of "old vs new". It's a critical observation, based on a quite fundamental design principle. Why does that make people feel threatened or attacked? And how does bashing on the original's shortcomings justify the missteps of an adaptation (that came 30 years later, on a completely different medium, by completely different people) anyway?

    And @BigRed, while we're at it, I don't understand why someone can't just make an observation, without setting out to make a whole documentary exploring the art of design itself, just in order to cover his bases from someone's cognitive dissonance. It's just a criticism. It's just an observation. Can't someone just do one of those?
     
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  11. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    If it's opinionated that's fine. If it's forced down our throat like it's factual, then I think I'm going to have a problem.
     
  12. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is. It seems pretty straightforward to me: "here's a basic design principle, here's an example where I think it works, here's an example where I think it doesn't". I don't see a problem there. Somehow, some people do.
     
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  13. electronic456

    electronic456 Dog of Raw

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    Maybe I overreacted but usually it just irks me with seeing stuff like that.

    Whatever floats anyone's boat I guess.
     
  14. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Old topic, didn’t watch the vid.
    The movie designs have been hit and miss; sometimes cool lookingbyet impractical at times.

    Despite being designed by Massive Black initially, I’ve seen other industry professionals say how bad they are due to lack of or having bad silhouettes.
     
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  15. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    IDK. Personally I prefer hard edges and sharp angles more, so all this principle seems pointless for me.

    Also, is the video author trying to tell us that all g1 robots were designed to be friendly? Because his Holy Geewun designs had pretty much both factions boxy (and even slightly rounded for the Studio Ox versions) and their shape dictated mostly by vehicle kibble (he kinda forgot that all Diaclone robot molds were designed to be heroic mecha driven by heroic humans...) and factions were differentiated mostly by their most common color schemes (so, a thing that could be changed just by different stickers and plastics).

    This part when he started acting like he couldn't even spell how successful the Bayformers were for a time... Kinda gives away everything.


    Someone with a camera who got some knowledge googled out and now is trying to make a point.

    But misses the fairly homogenous style of all classic designs and how they are failing at the principle pretty much as hard as does the Bayverse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  16. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    Well, cool. Quite often, me too. The principle isn't preferencial. Neither of the two shapes are a lesser option. That doesn't mean the principle is pointless. It depends on what you want your design to convey.

    Again, G1 was not mentioned. It's a totally different conversation. It's not a comparison. And yes, G1 models were simplified versions of the toys, created with the goal of being easily animated with the means of the time, and most often, to recall superhero stature. That's what worked for a cartoon of the era and that's fine by me. I don't know why you keep bringing that up to defend the movies' design aesthetic.

    You're on to something here. I think some people might dislike what you like.

    Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the designs of a 30 year old cartoon fail to meet this principle (which most often, I don't believe they do, but it's just my opinion, and like I said before, different circumstances). So, two failures (G1 and Bayverse), make a success, by that logic?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  17. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    If he's going to criticise the Bayverse for not adhering to the principle, then he should be reminding all the times the franchise was failing at this... The Bayhem movies not being a special snowflakes at it. Otherwise he's just coming as a biased individual looking for arguments for an already constructed narrative. Which is undermining his video entirely because I'm not interested in yet another Youtube whiner unless what they're posting has an actual objective value.

    And it's not even "for the sake of argument". The Holy Geewun, by the virtue of the first waves being composed of previously made toys from different franchises, was failing at it.
     
  18. Paok

    Paok Well-Known Member

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    He "shouldn't" anything. Anyone is allowed to make a simple observation without being required to be a scholar on a subject.

    Yes, many designs and many movies and many works of fiction aren't that great in various different aspects. Not just in Transformers. Not just the movies.

    To be honest, you seem to do exactly the same, just from the opposite perspective (just, not with a youtube video).


    @electronic456 This guy seems to be jamming his opinion down my throat like it's factual. I have a problem with that. What can I do about it?
     
  19. Bamond

    Bamond Robbie Rotten's step brother.

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    I like the bayberse deaigns rather than childish robots we're seem to be getting with this movie.Bay's design show how complex the Transformers are, not just plates of metal covering the bodies.
    Sadly, I am very disappointed with how Bumblebee looks. He seems to be 75% of the size and 0% of beauty for me.
     
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  20. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    I can tell you whole heartedly I will ABSOLUTELY miss the old designs. They were my transformers. I fell in love with transformers BECAUSE of the 07 movie. The “evil spikey” Megatron was my Megatron. Morso then the G1 will ever be. So yes. It is kinda just the older generation picking on the new. Because that is exactly how nostalgia works. People do not like change. I’m sorry but if you are too ignorant to admit basic fact then it goes to show how stubborn people are about something as stupid as how if their evil giant robot looks more monsterous vs more human in a movie.

    Don’t get me wrong. I love transformers. ALL transformers. All of them. I like the bay aesthetic more because that’s what I grew up with. Doesn’t mean I don’t love G1 too! The IDW comics are amazing. I love that Megs turns into a gun in show. Such a neat concept. But that wasn’t my Megatron. My Megatron was a huge space jet that kicked the crap outta Optimus Prime whilst taking on the entire US military and looking like an absolutely awesome machine of destruction. Who threw around cars and had some cool one liners. Looked like a boss finally getting revenge on Senitnel Prime.

    Do people forget about that?
    I remember at the end of Dotm people LOVED transformers. People were so hyped after Dotm for AOE.

    But yeah all I remember was the entire theater cheered when Megatron attacked Sentinel. No one was complaining about designs then.

    People have always loved transformers. In all different shapes and sizes and designs and colors and different media’s. Because at the core that’s truly what this franchise is about. Change. And transformation. And that in itself is truly a beautiful thing.

    And after all that. Even if Bumblebee is a reboot. I’m still hyped! Because that just means one thing. More transformers. And that’s all I really want or I think any of us here really want.
     

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