Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Zoneism, Dec 28, 2017.
Older than you.
That's assuming that parts won't get replaced though - and what's the lifetime of a metal that isn't exposed to an atmosphere anyhow? It's still pretty long. The biggest issue for me is how a Transformers consciousness is stored - data loss over a large period of time and the sort of electronics used to store what is probably many Yottabytes of data with little or no latency is the real problem for me.
Personally, I always liked the notion of a life-span in the millions. There's something sort of awe inspiring about a race of mechanical beings making war on one another for such a long period of time. After all - we're talking about a story dealing with giant, transforming, sentient robots from a planet which is also an even more giant, transforming sentient robot - surely it's not such a big step to accept that they live for several megaannus (Megannanna?) , assuming they don't find themselves on the wrong end of a high powered burst of fusion energy?
Sad, but true...and it's always bothered me. The 'millions of years' thing was something I'd hoped they were going to banish when I first heard about the IDW series starting up, but alas, it was not to be. I'd prefer hundreds of years, and I'm willing to concede to thousands, but not millions...it's just too much.
A long time because they are such bad shots!
Planets have atmospheres. Ever the moon has one. It's inherent to the ball of whatever. Transformers are on Earth, Cybertron, etc -- not in space. So that argument falls flat.
But your point about data degradation is one I'd not even considered. Very valid, and another reason that millions is nonsense.
I'd also prefer hundreds of years for most bots, and thousands only for a select few (Alpha Trion, etc). Millions is just ridiculous. I just pretend the writer can't tell time, and I mentally correct the problem.
The concentration and chemical nature of the atmosphere are very important factors to whether or not a metallic surface will oxidize/otherwise degrade or not. For example, I do not expect even the surface of aluminum to fully oxidize on the moon's thin atmosphere. Iron seems to rust (at least over a long enough time scale) on Mars, both would probably not do so great on Venus, but there's plenty of potential atmospheres, thick and thin, where corrosion are unlikely to occur.
obviously this depends on the continuity and even then each continuity has been very inconsistent with its own rules. Usually it's just a sweeping answer of "everybody is millions of year old, unless they aren't" and only then when these things come up do they create a specific situation for that specific character that usually hold no weight over other characters.
Personally if it were up to me, i would be writing things in such a way that most everybody is likely under the 5,000 year old mark with exceptions for the major elderly characters like kup, he could be 20k, and like Alpha trion who would be one of the original 13, hes allowed to be up in the multi millions.
doing this makes the characters a bit more relatable as well as fixing timeframes for the war and shit...
a race as advanced as the TFs took MILLIONS of years of ridiculously over the top city leveling warfare with friggin WMD space cannons and LITTERAL MILES TALL TITANS to reduce their relatively small planet to the point of being uninhabitable? i call bullshit, they leveled Cybertron in a matter of hundreds of years or less not MILLIONS.
I find it absolutely hilarious that in the IDW continuity the war just randomly stopped for a few thousands years every once and a while simple because it did (without a single shot fired in a span of 2,000 years mind you), what a load of crap.
I have ALWAYS thought that the TFs were WAY TOO OLD in every continuity.
Alright - but it's not always an Earth-like atmosphere. Iron will rust on Mars, but at a much slower rate due to the lack of reactionary substances in its thin atmosphere. The Moon, as you say, has an atmosphere but again it's extremely thin and materials are more likely to suffer the effects of radiation long before normal chemical reactions become an issue.
And again - we're talking about a race of robotic beings. Parts can be replaced.
It even rules out a life-span of thousands of years or even hundreds of years. Under constant usage, typical solid-state data storage lasts a very short period of time, even if most of the activity is by reading data, rather than writing. There's a phenomenon with NAND memory for example called "read disturb" where data around the bits being constantly accessed can be disturbed/corrupted in a very short period of time.
I suppose we could just explain it away by saying that TF's have superior data storage technology, but if we do that, why can't we just explain away other limits of materials by saying something similar?
To be honest, I think those who dislike the concept of a life-span that lasts millions of years can just say "it's ridiculous" or that the concept just "feels off" without trying to come up with real-world reasoning to back that POV up. Because you know what? It IS ridiculous...I just happen to like how ridiculous it is
It's simply a case of suspending disbelief. Where is the red line between good fictional and simple nonsense? That's where we are. You should take real-world into account, in order to temper fiction (fortifying said suspension). But just like the fiction not being taken too far overboard, you also cannot take the real-world physics/etc too far (because that's spoils the fun).
It's a delicate balance.
And I find the idea of "millions of years" to simply be poor storytelling. It crossed that red line from good fiction to nonsense.
I get that for some people like yourself, those sort of time-spans can break things more than just a wee bit. As for tempering fiction - I'm not so fussed. There are a lot of things about TF that need to be just "explained away" somehow - (like immediate and robust data storage for robotic beings) and there's a danger where we end up in the "Star Trek" situation where there are tomes and tomes of silly details about how things work because they are forever trying to write themselves out of a corner from real-world physics.
In the case of Gen1 TF, the megaannus life-span isn't exactly without purpose. They HAD to have such a long time-span in order to explain things like the Dinobots, who were on the toy release schedule for some point after launch. After all, why create Dinosaurs when resurrecting the bots in the present age? So Budianski probably worked from there to determine when the Ark crashed into Mt St Hilary for it all to fit together to have the Dinobots as part of the continuity. Once they had that, they needed to explain how TF's are still alive on Cybertron, and are still the ones whom all of the TF's on the Ark would recognise after all this time - all of which probably gave us the standard life-time of a Transformer who had not met a their premature demise at the end of a high energy weapon.
The millions of years longevity is intriguing for me. If I can suspend disbelief on a shape-shifting bio-mechanical species, I can suspend my disbelief on that other hallmark feature of them being able to live for millions of years only because it is still in line with their general characteristics overall comparing it to real life examples of machine or technology.
For example cars can last for a very long time given proper maintenance and care. That’s why some well taken care of antique cars are driven today. Also, it’s not so unbelievable to think of them as capable of living for millions of years when superhero characters like Superman, humanoid and carbon-based lifeform, are immortal themselves. Now you’ll have to take your suspension of disbelief in an immortal Superman into a whole new level as no carbon-based lifeform in real life are capable of living for eternity (yet).
Also, there’s something awesome about a species that can live for millions of years. Cybertronians are extremely ancient but also hyper-advanced at the same time. The scale is just epic given those terms compared to human existence which is a speck in the dust.
Well really it depends. If they exist in a universe where the Matrix energy or spark energy is infinite, than they never really age..... although that doesn't explain birth and aging like Jetfire (ROTF) and Kup.
In Regen One, we see that with out Matrix energy they can still live for a long time, but it isn't infinite.
ANd in G1 and other Japanese supplemental material we can tell Optimus is at least a minimum of 10 mil. Years old.
So yeah, with Matrix Energy / Spark they live an infinite life span until their sparks are extinguished.
Without Matrix / Spark energy, they only live for I want to say at least 100,000 years, I could be wrong.
I wanted to be able to make my own story yet nake it official i think i am a good writer, but i took offense toi thatthinkg you told me. i may be special, but i am smart, i have a big iq number, and my mom says im special anyway, at least to her. this speciality of mine haunts me and I dont plan on living much longer, and i would like to go out with a good story, and thats why id like to make my fan story official. thanks for reading, and have a good life.
Being where you are is the first step towards being where you want to be. You can be very special, have a high IQ, have all the talent in the world, but still not make it to the top of your craft, because there are so many things that you can only learn through training, practice, and personal experience. Einstein didn't just wake up one day as a teenager and write his theory of relativity. Hiroshige didn't paint a masterpiece on his first attempt. Orson Welles didn't win an Oscar for playing a little sheep in his first school pageant. You come off as a very young user to me (apologies if I'm making unfounded assumptions about you), so please, trust me when I tell you there are unseen oceans of things you need to learn below the surface of what you know, and what you think you need to know. One of the most important realizations I ever had was seeing just how far away mastery of a subject (and frankly, this has held true for basically any craft I've seen) was from the starting line, how far I would have to go and how hard I would have to work to get there. This was not a realization I had until well into practicing.
The writers currently working in an official capacity on the Transformers brand do so after years of education and training, decades of studying the works of other successful writers, and untold hours of writing for themselves, editing their work, re-writing and challenging themselves to hone their craft. They've swam upstream alongside literally thousands of other people vying for the same opportunities, and by building their skills (and likely a healthy dose of luck on top of that) they've gotten to where they are now. With all due respect, you sound like you're hurt because we don't think you're entitled to the same privilege they've earned before you even put pen to paper. I'm sorry, but did you really think it was going to be that easy?
As I see it, you have two options. The first is for you to give up on your dream now, because a few people on an internet message board told you that Hasbro wasn't going to give you a job because you asked nicely. You'll save some time with that option, at the very least, though I can't say it speaks to the strength of your dream. The other option, however, is for you to put your nose to the grindstone and write your story. Show it to anyone who'll read it, and if they tell you they don't like it, figure out why, and use that to go back and make it better, or to write something new that uses what you've learned. You'll have to do that over and over, probably so many times you'll lose count, but if you do it right, every time you'll get a little bit better, your stories will get a little bit better, and you'll get a little bit closer to being the writer you need to be to get a pro gig. It's that process that will let you go out with a good story, the best story you can make with however much or as little time as you have left. If your mom says you're special, that's good enough for me to believe, so put that talent to use and start building on it!
It depends on when megatron decides to kill them.
Kup is an example. So are Unicron and Primus if one believes in them.
Separate names with a comma.