How English Dubs have ruined my anime experience

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by Gnaw, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. Gnaw

    Gnaw Banned

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    No long rant here guys, just want to hit on some stuff and get things off the old back. Firstly, anime has always been my favourite cartoon style or genre, from Transformers (argueable) to Pokemon. The plot lines, the characters, the ridiculous animations etc, are what made these shows teh awesome. Recently I have been getting into more Adult anime such as Naruto, Bleach, Samurai Champloo, Akira etc. Of course I have been watching them via the free internets; gotta love bittorrent. However tonight has made me realize one thing: I hate English voice dubs. After watching the Japenese versions of the shows, I can't stand to watch anything english anymore (By the way, this show was Bleach....god the voice acting was just aweful). All the shows I used to think were awesome such as Dragonball Z and Pokemon have seemed to lower themselves in greatness. Also Dragonball Z, looking back on it, made me very angery as the filler episodes really never ended, the entire show was filler until Bleach came along in my opinion.
     
  2. DevilzFan

    DevilzFan CobraIsland.com Veteran

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    It's how I felt when I saw the English dub of Cowboy Bebop a few years back on Cartoon Network. A show I didn't think they'd have brought over, and they did a lousy job.
     
  3. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Wow, and Cowboy Bebop's a dub that's almost universally accepted to be excellent, to the point where even the Japanese director agrees that to be true...

    I think in your guys' case, a lot of the hate stems more from you following the original language version closely, and then simply not adapting well to a version different then you're used to, rather than the dub being simply bad, period.

    Not to say that there aren't bad dubs. Most of what 4Kids puts out (Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, kids stuff) is absolutely horrid, but then again, the programs themselves aren't exactly "A" material, either. But on the flip side of that, you get productions like Fullmetal Alchemist, where everyone involved truly has a passion for their work, and as a result, produces something truly great.
     
  4. Spider Striker

    Spider Striker ThisGuyWithTheYellowCap

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    I have to ask: What's wrong with dubs exactly? I mean, if you prefer your titles in the original Japanese, that's fine. I respect that. But, for all the bashing I've heard about dubs, I've never gotten any solid, logical reason as to why (For example, there is little to no "how" anywhere in the first post of this thread).

    I'm especially surprised to see Cowboy Bebop listed as a "lousy" dub. I have friend who's a hardcore subber and he actually preffered the dubbed version of that show.

    Again, I mean no offense, I'm just trying to understand this whole debate.
     
  5. King Starscream

    King Starscream <b><font color=blue>The Royal Seeker</font></b> Veteran

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    Probably the worst dub of anything would have to be Transformers: Energon. They totally destroyed characterizations that you wouldn't have otherwise caught in the Superlink anime. The worst would have to be how they change what Ironhide/Demolishor says as he is about to be destroyed by a wave of pure Energon to save Megatron. Instead of directing his final words to Roadbuster/Ironhide it's instead, a speech of half-hearted vengeance towards Optimus. That pretty much turned me off to that cartoon as a whole.
     
  6. Spider Striker

    Spider Striker ThisGuyWithTheYellowCap

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    Okay, yes, something like that does ruin a show. No arguement whatsoever here.

    But how is Cowboy Bebop "lousy" when they did everything they possibly could to be faithful to the source material?
     
  7. My03Tundra

    My03Tundra LOVES TO EDIT POSTS!!

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    Ebay:
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    Two words for a GOOD job:
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  8. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    Oh noes! English dubs dont have the overly deep sounding guy and the insanely high pitched woman voices!!


    Okay, Im not saying that all english dubs are better. Far from it. But there are definitely English dubs that rip the shit out of the orignal Japanese. Best example is Cowboy Bebop. Also, bigger titles are usually given better dubs. So if you watch a bunch of crappy anime, you will most likely also get a crappy dub with it.

    However, there is shit like Energon that gives ammunition to the dub haters. The voices in that series is what sent me over the top to not watch any more episodes.
     
  9. Sokar

    Sokar Well-Known Member

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    I actually didn't mind princess mononoke. It wasn't great, but it beat out a lot of recent anime dubs.

    I do like FMA though. It's pretty respectable

    I think there are primarily 4 issues with dubs for a lot of people:

    1.) Dialogue is often tonned down. This might include the removal of 'swears' and other 'curse words' or purposely changing dialogue to avoid 'adult themed' subjects like rape, homosexuality, or even political and religious issues. Complex dialogue is often dumbed down so that networks consider it to be understandable by north american audiances. In some cases this might just be a case of shortening dialogue or plain skipping entire sequences because it might be too confusing for audiances to follow (in their opinon).

    2.) Important dialogue is modified or deleted in order to 'localize' the story. Tied into 1, dialogue can be changed so that people watching the shows 'get it'. This amounts to them taking out or modifying many culture-specific jokes and references because God forbid that people might actually be exposed to a culture beyond their own front yard.

    3.) The addition of filler dialogue and catch phrases - 'believe it'. Two shining examples of this are cybertron and naruto respectively. To try and make the characters 'cool', companies will try to add non-story dialogue in to make the characters sound tough or cool if possible. In some cases this might include removing parts of the original dialogue which may or may not be critical to the story line and the development of the character. It might be used to fill in spaces in dialogue from where they have deleted culture-specific dialgoue, or it may even be added in when the characters aren't supposed to be talking or are saying something repetitive. In cybertron this was quite apparent when the characters used their force-chip attacks or transformed. Instead of using the somewhat dramatic original 'force chip ignition' dialogue , the opted for lackluster name calling and 'I'm going to get you this time' level dialogue. Hell, they even replaced the music during these sequences with that ridiculous intro song instead of keeping the original music which added a much more dramatic effect to the sequences. Other shows such as naruto also tend to repeat stupid catch phrases, such as 'believe it', at every opportunity. The fact is that kids associate things with catch phrases, and since the companies bringing these shows over here want to sell the shows and more importantly the merchandise to the target audiance of children and teens (no matter how adult the original show may have been), they will add whatever catch phrases they can to get the kids to remember the show. Think of it as a kind of 30 min 'head-on' commercial method.

    4.) Dull, monotone voice acting. This is probably one of the biggest complaints for a lot of people about dubs. The voice acting always seems to sound bland in anime dubs. While in many anime shows the voice actors really get into it (eg: alexander anderson, Galaxy convoy, etc) NA voice actors don't ever really seem too passionate when voicing their characters. With the japanese voice actors you really get a sense of the characters in the way they sound in different situations. You can hear the stress in their voice when the battles are difficult, or the focus and resolve of the character as they yell in battle. The voice actors give the characters personality when they voice them differently in different situations, and it helps to show not only the differences between situations of stress and relaxation, but it also shows differences between characters and how each one reacts differently. North american voice actors simply seem to voice all the characters pretty much the same all the time. It doesn't seem to matter what situation they are in, their voices always follow the same tone and pattern. There is little or no variance in the sound of each characters voice in different situations. They simply sound the same whether they are drinking tea or fighting a crucial battle in space. Further, there is little variance between characters since many of them sound virtually the exact same in tone and pattern. I'd say that there are 2 reasons for this though. The first is that north american companies don't take these shows nearly as seriously as they do in japan. To them, it's just a kid's show. They don't think kids will notice or care that there is no 'soul' in the way the characters talk because to them this isn't a peice of artwork and an expression of the writters, animators and voice actors. To them, it's a 30 min commercial, so as long as kids don't really care about whether or not everyone sounds the same, they won't care either. Also in relation to this, is the fact that 1 voice actor often does a fair number of the character voices on the show. As the companies bringing the shows over don't care about the characters or show much more than whether or not it will sell merchandise, they only want the quickest, cheapest ways to produce the shows. As is the case, they get in individual voice actors and get them to dub multiple episodes at a time, doing multiple characters, and possibly even multiple shows. At the same time, they don't give these voice actors a chance to actually watch the shows they are dubbing, and so the actors have no clue beyond the lines they are reading as to what the hell is going on. As such it's difficult to put much emotion into the lines since you don't know what's going on. On top of all that, just remembering what each character sounds like is hard enough (eg starscream/thundercraker mix-ups in cybertron), so creating and remembering different personalities to the way you speak for each character is even more difficult if not impossible for many va's

    Just my 2 cents though
     
  10. Altercron

    Altercron Well-Known Member

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    My girlfreind and I can attest to how DiC totally fucked up the dubs of Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R.

    Completely and utterly horrible.

    Though Cloverway did better with Sailor Moon S and Sailor Moon SuperS, they were far from perfect.

    I think the best dubs I have seen are Evangelion and RahXephon.
     
  11. CheetahDC

    CheetahDC Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes changes in dubs work. Bobo...lotta bos. Whatever. For example.
     
  12. Methos

    Methos ...Hail Megatron

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    *Remembers first time listening to DBZ without Eng dub*
    Sounded like Goku was kicked in the jimmy one time too many.
     
  13. mblase

    mblase Well-Known Member

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    Hooray! You may now join the legions of anime fans who violently prefer subs to dubs only because that's what they're used to, completely failing to see that when the dubbing is "inaccurate" it's because nine times out of ten the original show really wasn't that great to begin with. (I mean, come on... "Transformers: Energon"? Name one thing about that show that wouldn't have been improved by killing Kicker in the second episode.)
     
  14. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    Coming from a country where anime is generally available, I got to agree that most English dubs are bad...especially dialogue gets changed and the dull, mono-tone voices.

    I can't remember which anime I watched...I think it was One Piece? After watching the original, I never watched the English dubs again! LOL!
     
  15. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    RahXephon's is brilliant. Chris Patton and Monica Rial in the lead roles were nothing short of outstanding.
     
  16. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Banned

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    Uh did you ever think that they added "believe it" to the end of his sentences a lot because Naruto himself usually ends a sentence with "dattebayo" or "ttebayo" in the Japanese version, and it means nothing in Japanese. It's just his weird way of speaking and it leaves extra mouth movement time that they need to fill in with, I guess "believe it". IMO the Naruto dub is faithful, but it's just aimed at a younger crowd here so the violence is toned down. A lot of the voices are just plain annoying though (Ino I'm looking at you).

    I've never seen the dubbed version of the Evangelion TV series, although I've seen the ADV dubbed DVDs of Death and Rebirth and End of Evangelion. I couldn't stand it. The voices (Misato sounded way too young), and the incorrect name pronunciations really irked me. Incorrect name pronunction is another thing that bugs me. If any of you guys have seen clips of the new SDF Macross dub then you'll know what I mean. They pronounce it "Muh-cross" even though the opening song pronounces it right. And Captain Global saying "This ship is a piece of shit" is out of character and pretty unecessary, although hilarious as it is.

    FMA is no doubt my favorite dub so far. Faithful, appropriate voices with actors that act instead of just reading. That's probably my main problem with Gary Chalk voicing Optimus in the last 3 shows. It just sounds like he's reading a script instead of acting and adding character. You were so great in Beast Wars/BM, what happened?
     
  17. Brave Magnus

    Brave Magnus Hecho en Argentina

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    English dubs for some reason are.....well, ugly. I don't know why. ^^
     
  18. jet convoy

    jet convoy Beast Wars Forever!!!

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    Samantha, I just lost respect for you as a carbon based life-form.

    How could anyone say Cowboy Bebop's dub was "lousy"?
     
  19. Gnaw

    Gnaw Banned

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    Naruto.....yeah, compared to the Japenese version the English version doesn't hold its ground. I can agree that it's really what you're used to and what version you watch first, but 9/10 times japenese is better. Like on Bleach, Rukia sounds God aweful, like she's 25 and depressed, and the Hollows sounded like shit. He literally said, in the same voice and at a fast speed : "Wow you smell great I can't believe how great you smell, what are you? a Soul Reaper, mmmm I want that"...WTF?!
     
  20. Star Sabre James

    Star Sabre James <b>The JUICE</b> TFW2005 Supporter

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    I, too, am a person who can no longer stand to watch english dubbed anime. I think the first straw that broke was watching Gunbuster. That was my first exposure to non english dubbed anime. I loved it. I slowly started hating english dubbing. I could no longer stand it after I saw whe Star TV dubs of the Japanese Transformers. I will NEVER go back to english dubbed anime after that.
     

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