How does Prime transform?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by monosierra, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    I considered buying the Leader Prime toy but was dismayed at the sheer bulkiness of its legs - the wheels and wheel guard take up way too much space in both the Hasbro and Takara models.

    Though I understand that it is well nigh impossible to build a toy that transforms the way Prime does in the film (imagine the 10000 parts moving!), I'm rather baffled at why the general sequence of transforming can't be translated into the toy.

    How does Prime transform in the film anyway?

    Based on the footage revealed thus far, I'm guessing:

    1. Arms popping out from the sides of the engine compartment. When Prime transforms in the alley, something big popped out from the engine compartment.

    2. The cab as chest - a signature feature present in both film and toy(s).

    3. Grille folding into chest. As Prime leaped on to the highway, the grille dangles before his chest for a moment before collapsing into his torso. None of the toys seem to be able to do this, which is understandable.

    4. The back wheels tuck to the back of his legs.

    The last transformation seems impossible in the toys. In all the CG pictures I've seen, Prime has really long and streamlined legs. The wheel guards are nowhere to be seen and the proportion of wheels to the calves is much smaller than the toys suggest. How come Prime's legs are longer in the film than on the toys.

    I have a transforming toy (not TF) that looks stubby - before I jerk out the leg extensions and he pops an inch taller. The toymakers can do the same with Prime. I'm no engineer so correct me on this but I figure if the wheel guards can be folded to two halves and the wheels can be twisted to lie horizontally (in the film, the wheels are resting a bit diagonally against Prime's legs) against the back of his calves, Prime can look a lot more impressive in toy form.

    By the way, thanks for teaching me the word "kibbles". Never knew it til I read about it here.
     
  2. j.a.f.o.

    j.a.f.o. Just Looking, Not Buying

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    Dude, you are taking this way too seriously and literally. It's called "special effects"...either put the laws of physics aside or else give yourself an aneurysm.
     
  3. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    They could probably make a more accurate movie Prime toy, but it would have to be larger to account for more moving parts. And those parts would have to be sturdy enough to survive play.
     
  4. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    I know better to take movie magic seriously lol. But I prefer a Prime toy that has longer or less bulkier legs.

    Still, its fun to guess how he transforms, no? Of course I don't expect real transformations but its exciting to guess which part goes where lol.
     
  5. Guiltar

    Guiltar Active Member

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    Prime transforms very carefully
     
  6. nuopus

    nuopus Well-Known Member

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    It is IMPOSSIBLE to make an accurate toy to the movie because movie Prime is VERY complex. His legs look more slender because the wheels cave in on itself. The outer wheel separates into 4 parts and collapse into the inner wheel making it thinner. You can see this in the footage if you look closely. The grill slides down, splits in the middle, and tucks angled into his side and kind of looks like ribs. I can kind of imagine how this would work on a large scale, but it would be way too fragile unless the robot was HUGE. And even then, it would take you a good long time to transform him because of all of the parts you would have to move. You can actually see how he transformers, there are just TOO MANY moving parts to translate into a toy without putting it in the 3 digit dollar range.
     
  7. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    Ah thanks for the info abt collapsing wheels - that's exactly what I wanted to know.

    So I take it the cab moves up to form the chest, the head pops from the cab, the back (what's the term for it?) of the truck folds down to form the legs, the grille and engine tuck inside the torso and down to the thighs and the back of the cab forms his back?
     
  8. JusticeSabre

    JusticeSabre FLUKE the SYSTEM.

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    I think even the head splits into a hundred moving pieces.

    :( 
     
  9. Sciron

    Sciron Well-Known Member

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    Yeah man you're putting to much thought into it. I got both Robovision Prime and leader Prime. I love both figures. Personally I think leader Prime stands out and demands presence, and shows you why he's the leader. Robovision is more movie accurate and has the slim style like in the movie. So if you want the slime look go with Robovision. Transformation isn't the same, due to what everyone pointed out, but he looks more like the Movie Prime.
     
  10. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, obviously in a toy the head would have to be just one piece.

    I'll kill for a movie-accurate Prime toy, even at full retail Masterpiece prices. All-metal components, full paint job, I'd be all over that.

    As for the transformation.. I haven't quite figured it out yet. The sleeper cab just disappears somewhere, I'm not sure where. The front grill folds up, again, not sure where. Don't know where his feet come from, but the front wheels also manage to end up at his ankles, below the rear wheels (the Leader toy has that part right). The arms come from the engine compartment. Even looking at that stupid-high-res picture that was released a couple days ago, I can't tell where everything goes.

    At this point, I'm just going to say that we haven't seen enough of the transformation to make an informed decision. That should all change in about two weeks when the game comes out, since we'll be able to sit there and push the Tranform button over and over again while he just stands there and we pan the camera around him. That'll go for all of 'em.
     
  11. nuopus

    nuopus Well-Known Member

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    I can see in my head how the transformation would take place. Although the head thing, is a little confusing. LOL. In my imagination of how it would work, there is no way the head can go without it collapsing. If they were to make a movie accurate transformation in a toy, believe me it would be WAY more expensive than the masterpiece line because it would have to not only be a lot bigger, but also have a lot more moving parts.
     
  12. Cheebs

    Cheebs Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure movie Prime transforms using secret ninjitsu animation techniques very similar to the ones G1 Prime used... Stuff changes shape here. Stuff shrinks there. Something moves around a corner and dissapears into oblivion. Another something gets pulled out of "subspace" right before rotating around into view. Etc. etc. etc.

    Who really cares? It looks awesome!
     
  13. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    Well the Tfs were initially designed as Rubik-like mind puzzles weren't they? I'm sure Michael Bay ensured the transformations were as realistic as possible and the ILM modellers followed his instructions ... so it'd be a fun challenge to figure out where the pieces go.

    Bumblebee is another tough one to figure out.
     
  14. Cheebs

    Cheebs Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt that the transformations are strongly based on "reality". We can clearly see a whole ton of "this goes here and that goes there". Not to mention how strongly many of the toys resemble the renders.

    But at the end of the day the robots have to look amazing. So I imagine that the animators looked at what could be done by simply moving 100,000 parts around, got close to where they needed to be, and then started making stuff shrink/stretch/dissapear to make it to the final robot designs.
     
  15. viper2391

    viper2391 Well-Known Member

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    Yap, that's why the whole realistic approach on this movie is just propaganda. the designs are certainly good but in no way realistic. ITs a movie for cryin out lound.

     
  16. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    Not trying to overthink the process, but I do hope that the movie transformations are somewhat consistant and maintain a pattern. I mean, I don't want to see Prime's legs pop out from the front one time then pop out from the rear another time. I'd like to think there is a specific way each robot goes from one mode to another and that the animators don't change it up as they go.
     
  17. Prime crotch

    Prime crotch Well-Known Member

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    No, you can see on the MTV clip, I think that's the one, that the head come out of the chest just like the Leader version figure.
     
  18. Simian

    Simian Biscuits and Gravy....???

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    yeah....

    Michael Bay said Prime has 10,800 moving parts...let me know how that "movie accurate" toy goes for ya'......and
    his head is made up of many parts...it doesn't just pop out...
     
  19. bobby_C

    bobby_C Well-Known Member

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    Basically, the arms are in the hood (the bits formed by the kneecaps in Leader Prime), the legs work mostly like Leader Prime, BUT the sleeper cab unfolds to become both additional mass for the legs and the whole bulk of the torso.

    This is not duplicated in the leader toy mostly because of the torso gimmick and electronics, which require a big static block.

    Also, even discounting the little panels (they can be merely emulated through good sculpting, as most of the movie toys show), some of movie Prime's transformation may need lots of extra hinges, some probably too fragile or costly for a kid's toy.
     
  20. monosierra

    monosierra Well-Known Member

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    Anyway knows where the rear wheel guards - the culprit behind Leader Prime's bulky legs - goes in the film? I'm guessing it kinda folds to little pieces.

    **Sigh** I've gotten used to the sleek Evangelion toys so a bottom-heavy Prime is a real let down, especially when he looks so tall and stylish in the movie.
     

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