Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Ch40sKnight, Jul 8, 2017.
I could go for a 2D show after the how many years of 3D animation we've had?
That's the first I've seen of Trigger and I already hate it. I can tell that's the classics Optimus mold but the way it's drawn makes it hard to tell what the hell kinda pose he's in and I think a series animated in that style would make it difficult to follow what the hell is happening. I like the classic Optimus but that just makes him look terrible.
Also what's your problem with the WfC/FoC aesthetic? I love those designs. They're a lot better than the movies or Animated. I can't get enough of them. I wish Hasbro would produce more toys based on those designs as well. There's a tone of characters who only exist in the games that I would love own toys of.
The only ones I really didn't like are the Dinobots and Insecticons cause I think the whole point of those designs is for them to have Cybertronian vehicle modes not to transform into Earth beasts. I just want to see more Cybertronian vehicles in something based entirely on Cybertron. Save the beastformers for and Earth based sequel.
Actually considering we've never really gotten one I would love to see an entire series set on Cybertron with more of those Cybertronian style alternate modes. Maybe a blend of War Within, Beast Machines Vehicons, and WfC/FoC. That would be awesome to watch.
I could not disagree with you more. I can't stand the WFC aesthetic cause all of the bots look fat and chunky and have that ridiculous glowy TRON stuff all over them. I just think they look awful. And at the same time, the movies are my favorite aesthetic, with Animated at a close second...
And as for a better view of what Trigger does in an animated sense, here's the opening from Kill la Kill, their flagship show, and one of my alltime favorite series.
I agree entirely. Just watching the WFC designs walk makes me laugh. They're so inflated, so I practically bulky, they can't even move convincingly, like they're in fat suits. And they're so bland and devoid of personality. The faces are almost impossible to make out properly at times because they're so small and dark, that in anything besides ideal lighting and close up, you can't make out their expressions. The proportions are just the worst, I think only Starscream looks decent out of those I remember because he's not the robotic equivalent of Marcus Phoenix on even more steroids. And yeah, I am well over TRON lights and just little lights of TFs in general. It just needless distorts the silhouette under different lighting conditions.
I'd love a show where each character had its own sort of style. Where one TF was more blocky, one was more sleek, one used round shapes, and any mix in between, etc. Sorta like how Cybertron gave each planet it's own internal aesthetic. Often times sticking to a style can really hurt the variety and diversity of designs as Prime and RID have shown.
That's exactly how I feel regarding the WFC designs. Thank you for putting it into better words.
And yeah, a variation of styles would be cool, regarding planets of origins. I think it'd be best if the new show tried to tackle IDW-esque designs, but of course that's probably not gonna happen.
I honestly just want a more anime look. Like the Unicron Trilogy but with no animation inconsistencies and CGI.
I do like how Prime did things but it was obviously too hard to keep. As long as we don't get another RID (current one) type of show, i'll be fine.
Would be cool to see a blend of G1 with RID'01 and Armada but without the minicons of course.
That's a pretty tall order for any cel animated TV show, unless it just had a really high budget.
Though I'd settle for few inconsistencies. The quirk of hand-drawn is that it's never going to look perfect 100% of the time, but that also makes it feel more organic and natural. Characters will lose detail at certain times or be rendered more stylized for certain shots, but it works in conveying the tone and action of a scene.
OK the animation is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be from that first picture I saw. That still shot really not the best thing to show someone as the first example of that art style but Kill LA Kill, I could get into that.
Still disagree about the WfC/FoC designs. Though I do know what you mean about the Tron lights especially on Bumblebee who's vehicle mode is literally just ripped straight from Tron. That being said many of the toys don't even include those details... though Jazz looks kinda bland without them. There's not much to break up all that white and I think he looks better with the red Tron lights. Everyone else I could do without them.
I don't think anyone in the game looks fat. And how did you go from fat to steroids, you do know there's a difference between fat and muscle right? Also what about Shockwave, he's actually the most slender looking robot in the game and unlike Prime Stars cream actually looks realistically slender not like he's anorexic.
As for the faces, it's a video game, with the exception of cut scenes they didn't even bother animating the faces cause no one is going to see them when you're staring at the back of the character's head 99% of the time. Plus at least they actually have faces unlike the Prime designs which were all just smooth metal surfaces with a slit for a mouth and no bloody detail what so ever. If they didn't have different helmets it'd be hard to tell anyone appart just looking as those bland faces.
Also they actually look like the characters they're suppose to be which is more than I can say for pretty much every series except for Animated in the last ten years.
As for the proportions, you like Animated and have the nerve to complain about designs with the same proportions as 90% of all Transformers designs in history? You'd rather have giant chins on tiny heads and giant torsos on tiny legs than something that actually looks normal?
If you want to complain about Transformers being fat, Bulkhead and Energon Optimus. If you want to complain about band faces, all of Transformers Prime, they don't even have noses. If you want to complain about messed up proportions, Animated and Prime again.
The only real complaints you have there is the Tron comparison and the designs being really blocky though they were made to look like G1 designs before they came to Earth and they were very blocky so that's why they're like that. Plus pretty much every vehicle Transformer has been blocky decause vehicles typically have blocky shapes. Of course a vehicle that is basically just a box on wheels is going to turn into a blocky robot. At least beastformers aren't as blocky as they were in G1. I can understand vehicles but I don't really get why Razorclaw is so blocky. It would be nice to see an updated Predaking along with all the other G1 beastformers with more natural shapes. They are robotic but we've had other robotic beastformers from Trans metals on word who weren't blocky so why not give the G1 Beastformers a modern update with more natural proportions for their beast modes.
That's kind of what I was hoping for Six shot but instead we got one that still looks like brick.
Anyway, I think War Within Bumblebee was better. Less like a Tron vehicle and more like a pre-Earth Bumblebee. But I still would like some kind of mix of other Cybertronian designs for a series set entirely on Cybertron. And one thing new I'd like to suggest that always gets complained about with Cybertronian vehicle modes... Stop giving them cockpits. They don't have or need drivers so why the hell do they still have cockpits? If you're going to complain about anything how about why WFC/FOC Optimus needs a windshield. Other than the fact most Optimus designs have a windshield chest even when half the time they're fake, but I don't think it's needed. Armada still looks like Optimus even without a windshield chest so I kinda wish they'd stop giving him fake ones. If they end up there fine but if they don't it's not the end of the world. He doesn't need to have them all the time.
I kinda like how in Beast Machines the area were a driver would sit on an Earth vehicle was kinda like a second head... though Jet storm's still looked like a cockpit. Thrust and Tankor though they looked like their vehicles had a second robot head built into them. And Cybertronian vehicle modes are probably the only time that they could actually get away with having the robot heads visible in vehicle mode. Another good thing about it is there's no question of how they can see in vehicle mode.
Well, the thing is, all the proportion stuff aside, which I will get back to momentarily, I do have one thing to say, that I'm probably gonna catch some shit for...
I've never really been a fan of the g1 designs in the first place.
There, I said it. That's why I like stuff like Animated and the movies, they're new iterations of the characters that often evoke the original but in a new manner that's much more visually appealing in my eyes.
And.. I said I was gonna get back to it...
I think it's funny you mention jazz because I just think this toy looks awful with its faux wheel kibble, massive car chest making the entire torso, and huge hinges plainly visible in alt mode like a shoddy Unicron-era toy... Not to mention the "Huge torso on stick legs" you claimed was so prevalent with the Animated designs.
I would watch the crap out of this:
So for the people hoping for 3D animation...
Boulder Media Looking For Designers And Artists For A Transformers Animation Production - Transformers News - TFW2005
Looks like it's going to be a 2D animated series.
I can understand that with Animated but the movie does little to nothing to evoke the G1 designs. The only exceptions are Optimus, Soundwave, and Shockwave. That's why I hate them so much.
I can also understand wanting to get away from the blocky G1 asthetic. Like I said before, I don't mind it mostly because it makes sense for a blocky vehicle to turn into a blocky robot but we have seen some Transfomers who manage it without looking like bricks. Prime proportions and bland faces aside, I do like the fact they're not bricks. The only G1 Transformers who really bother me though are the beasts because they really don't need to be made of bricks.
As for Jazz, yeah the fake wheels were a result of the transformations at the time becomming more simple. As for the proportions I was more talking about how most characters in Animated have the proportions of the Tick or the Crimson Chin. Not just slender legs but also short compared to their arms. Plus Jazz doesn't have the giant arms that typically go with Animated. He just looks like G1 Jazz which also had a giant chest and actually the G1 version sticks out more than FoC who is more flat.
The hinges don't bother me as basically all Transformers have visible hinges. That's just a result of a Transformers toy line. Kinda weird that you would single that out on Jazz. They're Transforming robots, it's impossible not to have visible hinges. Especially in the needlessly complex movie designs that your such a fan of. Thoses things have hinges and pannel lines all over the place. Another reason why I hate them. Most other Transformers the hinges and pannel lines are hidden as things that would normally be on the car anyway. But with movie designs normally smooth portions of the vehicle have tones of hinges and panel lines that shouldn't even be there. I can deal with a few that are absolutley nessicary to transform them but I don't view Bumblebee's chest for example breaking into three parts as a nessicary part of his transformation. At least with Prime Bumblebee you actually do need to split the chest to get his robot head out. But the movie design, the chest breaking appart isn't really needed for anything. It's just an optinal step that you can do for screen accuracy or skip entirely and still have a complete robot. I think he looks better with a solid chest but even if I skip that step I'm stuck with the panel lines.
So I'm a little confused here.
First I'm going to address that the movies looking little like G1 is a good thing in my eyes, as again, I never really liked the G1 designs in the first place. I think sleek cars should look like sleek bots, and monstrous machines should look like monstrous aliens, which the movies pull off perfectly in my eyes.
As far as I'm aware, only Sentinel and maybe Ultra Magnus are the only ones I can immediately think of with the big chin issue, but Sentinel was pretty much inspired by the Tick so it makes sense to me.
So the part I'm confused about is how you say the hinges don't bother you... and then immediately go on to talk about how much hinges bother you for the movie toys? You completely contradict yourself in like two sentences, stating that it's impossible not to have visible hinges on transformers alt modes... and then go on to say that other figures don't have them while movie toys do? Panel lines are inevitable, sure, but for the most part the movie figures do their best to keep hinges out of the way and on the insides of vehicle panels. They're usually sleek and clean as far as hinges go.
The reason I singled out that Jazz mold is because the ones on the side stick out like a sore thumb and just look really bad.
I'd be fine with either 2D or CGI (as long as it looks even half as good as Prime did), but I would prefer 2D just because there are enough CGI cartoons today already.
You call wire frames covered in gapply panels sleek? The only sleek vehicle who turns into a sleek robot is Sideswipe who is actually one of the few movie designs I actually like. Though it would be nice if at least the head design some what resembled the original Sideswipe and if he was red. There was a red repaint in the toy line but it still had that movie head sculpt.
Even Shockwave had a giant chin which is really weird when he doesn't even have a face. Some how they put a giant chin on a guy with an eye ball for a head. The only character in Animated who actually had good proportions was Megatron. Though to be fair the Fembots really aren't that bad either though they do have long skinny necks.
It's not a contradiction because if you read more carefully I was complaining about an excess of unnessicary hinges and panel lies that should not exist. There's a big difference between a hinge that has to be because there's no possible way to bring his arms out without them and hinges that have nothing to do with a nessicary step of transformation.
A few hinges are fine and most of the time they're disguised as an actual part of the vehicle mode. Like doors would naturally have hinges and panel lines anyway, that's how a door works even when it doesn't turn into a robot. But movie toys have panel lines and hinges in places that a car wouldn't normally have them. Like Sideswipe who I mentioned earlier his vehicle mode is almost completely smooth but in toy form he's completely covered in ugly panel lines. I actually bought a non transforming model of it just because I like that car and I wanted at least one that isn't covered in those pannel lines.
The ones on Jazz are right were a door would be on an Earth vehicle and are entirely nessicary for transformation unlike movie Jazz's chest which does not need to be broken apart to complete his robot mode and creates unsightly panel lines just for the sake of a completely unnessicary over complicated transformation step that makes the vehicle mode look broken and the robot mode look needlessly busy.
Nothing in the movie toy line looks sleek with all those extra panel lines. Even the best movie toys have more panel lines than any other toy line and there's no need for it. All it does is makes them look broken. There is no reason to make them that complex. Tone that stuff down.
Look, I don't think we're going to agree on any of this no matter how much back and forth we go through. Not to mention we're seriously getting off topic.
To the original point of the thread, I just want a more mechanical look overall instead of humans in robot suits or people wearing cardboard boxes designs.
Of course we're never going to agree but it would be nice to at least understand a different point of view. I think I've somewhat come to a better understanding of your point of view. I still don't agree with it but I have a better understanding now then when we started. Not sure if you have any more understanding of my point though.
Anyway that said, the topic is about design aesthetic so I don't think we've really gone too far off. Luckily movie designs are more expensive than a TV series can afford. As long as they don't go overly cartoony like Animated did or try to blend different art styles like Energon/Cybertron did.
I wouldn't mind another anime... and if it's set entirely on Cybertron that would be even better. However if we get yet another series set on Earth, the human characters, we've been seeing nothing but giant eyes and spiky hair for YEARS now. I could really use a break from that anime style of humans for a while. Every cartoon since Pokémon first got popular has been trying to copy that art style even when it's not a real anime like Last Air Bender. I don't hate it but when every cartoon is doing that I just want to see something different. If they could go more realistic for a change that would be great.
If they go for a style and vibe similar to that of Samurai Jack and Symbionic-titan I would gush all over it.
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