How did the Autobots lose on Cybertron?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Meggamus, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Meggamus

    Meggamus I want FOC figures!!

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    How come the autobots lost the war on cybertron but win all the battles on earth. Surely if the autobots were that badass they wouldn't have lost on cybertron ?

    I know that they do have humans helping them on earth but surely its nothing that a handfull more bots could do?

    It's not that there were more cons, cos we've seen the multitudes that are in the movies and the bots deal with them

    Why do you think it is that they lost on Cybertron?
     
  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    I don't think the Autobots lost on Cybertron as so far as the planet became drained of all its energy because the AllSpark got launched into space. If anything, that should have resulted in something close to an Autobot victory, because that's when Megatron took off after the cube, and pretty much left the Decepticons to their own devices, which an organized Autobot offensive could have driven them off the planet.

    Of course, the Autobots couldn't live on the planet either, so they had to abandon it.

    I'm also totally ignoring the comics for this, such as Reign of Starscream where both Autobots and Decepticons are somehow still alive on the planet.
     
  3. bad karma 99

    bad karma 99 Imaginationist.

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    Terrain disadvantage. The Autobots all seem to have ground based Alt. modes, while the Decepticons have Alt. modes capable of flight. Movie-verse Cybertron looked impossible to drive on.
     
  4. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    They probably faught more "nobly", with a more "moral high ground" on Cybertron.
     
  5. Devil Prime

    Devil Prime Well-Known Member

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    While we can come up with a bunch of "in universe" answers the real answer is that the Decepticons have been handled quite poorly in the movies. There was never any sense of danger from them.
     
  6. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Once the Decepticons starting bringing units into the field with heavily armored faces, it was all over for the Autobots.


    Also they lost on Cybertron because there were no humans there to help them.
     
  7. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    Because on Cybertron, they were outnumbered 1000000 to one. On Earth, they were outnumbered 1000 to 1. The Earth front was much more manageable.
     
  8. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    We don't have a clear reason, but looking at the movies, I'd say:

    1 - They were massively outnumbered [since 'Cons are always in larger numbers in the movies].

    2 - Knowing the psychopath Megatron is, he probably deployed some really nasty guerrila tactics [such as Autobot infanticide to cut down their numbers, destruction of Energon mines to make the Autobots starve, slaugther of civilians for psychological warfare, burn cities to the ground, make terrain non-fertile, slavery, biological warfare, slaughter of neutral factions, murder in peace conference, the list goes on], said tactics crippled the Autobots.

    3 - I always had the theory that the Autobots we see in the movie are the best of the best, which is why most of the Autobots we see are badasses: [Most of] the weak ones perished along the war, therefore only the best of the best were able to live [while the 'Cons "ZERG RUSH"-type of tactic caused the opposite effect for them], back in Cybertron, they probably were much weaker [and had lots of nameless idiots in their armies].

    4 - I think it is safe to assume the Decepticons are better strategists [Megatron played the Autobots like a violin in DOTM, Soundwave manipulated the entire US Government without their knowledge, Starscream freed Megatron and found the AllSpark within a couple of days] and have a better intelligence system [they do know a lot more about Cybertron than the 'Bots].

    5 - The 'Cons seem to possess more advanced tech [Minicons and Brains' existence].

    Talking in ridicuously simplistic terms that probably make historical no sense, the 'Cons are The Nazi Germany [how fitting], The Autobots are the rest of Europe before The Allies decided to open a can of whopass [the battles set on Earth being AFTER the Allies decided to open a can of whopass].
     
  9. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    "Overmatched and outnumbered, our defeat was all but certain." (I'm assuming moreso than they were in the Earth battles ;)  )

    But when I give it more thought, since when did the Autobots technically "lose" the war? From what I know/understand, it wasn't really a matter of winning or losing. Cybertron was eventually left dead an barren from the constant wars; uninhabitable for both sides. They were probably going to lose, but the devastation eventually became too much.

    This.

    And as usual, Balder brings his A-game to the court. We should call him "Baller".
     
  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    It could also be because The Decepticons were built for war, exploration and defense and the Autobots were built for construction and civil tasks, on average. The Autobots who're left are ones who either also have military pasts or who were really good at adapting to the war or hiding.
     
  11. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    Exactly, looking at the movie continuity as far as we know the only Autobots built for war are Ironhide (ex-Field Commander), Sideswipe (built during the war) and Warpath (because he's a fricken' tank).

    The Decepticons are all built for war.
     
  12. Rayzilla Prime

    Rayzilla Prime I RIP ALL MY RAZE!

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    I think what Optimus meant by "the war was lost" was that peace was not obtained for Cybertron. It was left in ruins, and the bloodshed continues. Not because the Autobots lost the fight, just that they failed their intentions to restore peace to Cybertron.
     
  13. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    "Everyone loses if there's nothing to win" - Erector
     
  14. SuperJazz

    SuperJazz Dictator of my Dimension

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    Why this impacted which battles they lost and won is total bullshit.

    Most human weapons that they can hold hardly do squat to them except if you hit them in the right spots. I hate the writers with a passion sometimes.
     
  15. AquamanOS

    AquamanOS Well-Known Member

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    That whole "Decepticons built for War, Autobots aren't." thing isn't really true in film or Prime verse because they all began as the same Cybertrionian race. And while the ones that would become the Decepticons were mostly warriors, not all of them were, and some Autobots like Ironhide and Sideswipe were warriors. And Optimus was raised as a scientist, but being a Prime, also possessed great combat power.

    Otherwise I'd just chalk it up to Optimus doing a better job keeping his elite warriors and officers alive, while Megatron generally didn't, as he probably saw everyone as expendable. So after the war had raged for eons, Optimus had a force of about 15 well trained Autobots vs Megatron's legion of rather weak disposable grunts with only a few officers.

    And Optimus still needed to field idiots like the twins, and non combat personel like Ratchet and Wheeljack, to keep up. And Megatron still came within a hairs breath of winning every film.
     
  16. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    But other human weapons (AC-130 gunship, massed artillery strikes, railguns...) can fuck them right up.





    Doesn't matter that they're the same race, they still held different roles in cybertronian society, some of which were better suited to conflict (and which the Decepticons held disproportionately), as evidenced in the comics and by Jetfire/the Seekers in ROTF.

    You make an excellent point though: The Decepticon leadership, post-conquest, was almost certainly inferior to before it. Megatron was abruptly removed from the picture after the Allspark was jettisoned, and his unfortunate collision with the ice left him effectively out of the picture for decades, if not hundreds of years (I can't remember the timeline for certain). In the meantime, there was almost certainly a power vacuum and a power struggle, as even a few years before the first film some Decepticons still held out hope that Megatron would be found and reassume his rightful role. This probably, at best, made the Decepticons much less efficient and coordinated at waging war against the remains of the Autobots, could have left them vulnerable to Autobot attacks for the same reason (they basically had to devote resources to defending from the Autobots and other Decepticon factions), or at worst, eliminated powerful Decepticons from the ranks in petty feudal squabbles.

    So by the time the first film rolls around, the Decepticon army may be a tattered, starving mess compared to the one that defeated the Autobots on Cybertron. The Autobots may be low on resources and manpower as well, and may lack the same combat abilities on average per member, but at least they'd be better coordinated and cooperative.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
  17. SuperJazz

    SuperJazz Dictator of my Dimension

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    Oh really now? Tell me can human infantry carry that around? Nope!

    They have to call them in and they're not as maneuverable as Decepticons in the air, like what Starscream did in the first movie or on the ground. And a railgun's on a battleship. A fucking battleship! That's not very portable and you have to have very flat terrain if you want range or you'll hit a bunch of other things and it will lose energy.

    So human infantry, not very effective by themselves. Plus they have to get out of the way...of their own weapons or they'll get killed too.
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    When, in any of the films, did human infantry operate without any form of outside support ready to go? Even in Chicago they had UAV and communications support from outside forces. And even then, they went in with specialized equipment and tactics that WERE effective against the Decepticons, even if every member of the team didn't carry it. That's how armies work.

    Portability is not the be-all and end-all in projecting force, especially when you're talking about things that have an effective range measured in miles.

    The humans also have a massive numbers advantage in most cases, since it's a human world, and the Decepticons don't seem to field more than minor forces, with the exception of the Chicago engagement.

    In short, to dismiss the impact of human aid on the Autobot war effort on earth in the Bay films is ludicrous.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
  19. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Sentinel Prime was all like screw you guys i'm going into space.
     
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    Human infantry utilised snipers, bombs in the joints and ambushes to good effect in DOTM, using superior numbers and their smaller size to distract and confuse their larger targets. Decepticons are more powerful, but humans can just pile it on with the fact there are billions of us. It's pretty easy to call in reinforcements and heavier weapons when the 'Cons are distracted by the pesky chaps running around their feet. That's the useful thing about outnumbering your foe.
     

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