How big is a run?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Transbot90210, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I was wondering just how many of each figure is made. Not so much on Hasbro's side, more so with 3rd party groups.

    In regards to Hasbro, what is a run of one figure for them? 10,000? 100,000?

    What constitues a large successful run for a 3rd part group? 100? 200? 500? 1000? 2000?

    To shed more insight on the question. If I were to produce a figure and it were to sell as well as, say, Crossfire02 or Protector or even Defendor, how many figures would I be looking to produce?

    Thanx
    Transbot90210

    p.s. No I am not producing anything, I'm just curious as to what a large production number is for a 3rd party group and what production numbers are like for a Hasbro figure.
     
  2. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    everything you listed for 3rd party seems to be under the catagory of "limited run".

    KMA is a 2000 piece limited run
    FP SS is a 600 piece limited run

    etc etc. I believe at least 3-4k Protectors were produced.

    As for Hasbro, its very difficult to tell.
     
  3. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    I can only hypothesize that Hasbro works on an order of 10,000's, while 3rd parties are on an order of 1,000's at best.
     
  4. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I assumed 2k was a very big run.

    With the multiple runs on City Commander, How many of those were produced?
     
  5. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    if 2k was a big run, then how can they call KMA a limited run of 2000? I guess maybe each 3rd party have a diff standard.
     
  6. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I just thought 2K would be a big run. I really have no clue as to how many of each figure is produced and what constitutes a success.
     
  7. wildfly

    wildfly Lasers, 8 O'Clock, Day 1.

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    (I think) 20,000 is about average, or maybe even slightly low.

    ROTF toys and RTS Windcharger are probably alternate ends of that spectrum : P
     
  8. tusko

    tusko Well-Known Member

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    As an aside, I like to look at how many comics are being published on a monthly basis.

    Roughly I guess there are 10,000 die hards. If this is 1/10 of the TF population there are maybe 100,000 TF merchandise purchasers per month at any one time. I would guess Hasbro makes about that many per run with variation accounting for case assortment, marketing, and character popularity.
     
  9. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    Wait up a second. A hasbro run is only 20,000 and Protector sold 3000-4000? This sounds like our community makes up for a lot more than 10% of sales. At 4000 you are looking at 20%.

    Is a Hasbro run really that low? 20,000? I mentioned 10,000 but I thougth it was closer to 100,000...go figure.
     
  10. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    What really distorts my impression are BBTS' stock numbers. It's not uncommon for them to have 1000 Fansproject items in stock or up for pre-order, which makes you wonder if runs are actually quite large, or if BBTS just has a huge 3rd party market presence.
     
  11. llamatron

    llamatron Shut up, Nigel. TFW2005 Supporter

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    From memory the only time we've had a solid production number released by Hasbro (not counting Botcon exclusives) was Beast Machines Primal Prime - approximately 10,000. That was a low run figure ten years ago. I think it's safe to say they would be approaching or in excess of 100,000 for things like movie deluxes etc. I would also assume they made several million Tuner Mudflaps.
     
  12. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    Correction: they never stopped.
     
  13. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    No, it was just the random number you made up immediately got picked up as gospel by everyone else.
     
  14. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    As long as someone caught that my numbers were random and hold no weight what so ever, I'm good.

    But I would still love to know numbers on items suck as everything FP and on those PE Cassetticons/Targetmasters.

    I've been very curious as to how many items a 3rd party group puts out and how it compares to a Hasbro run.

    LOL@ Tuner Mudflap
     
  15. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    I stated the 3k-4k number on protector. I also stated that number is a minimum pure speculation on my part, based on TFS, BBTS, and Robot Kingdom stock when they first put up preordered. I imagine numbers to be higher.

    I also don't think Hasbro is producing near 10k. I think its much higher than that. But again, EVERYTHING we say here is conjuncture without any facts to back off.
     
  16. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I wonder if Venska or Drillbit would know for sure? They seem to be really in the know with 3rd party manufactuerers.
     
  17. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    A large garage kit run is 300-500. Look at Renderform and the Cliffjumper kit. Nato's roadbuster is probably at around 100 but I don't remember.

    Fansproject made 500 TFCon. They likely made more DIA Commanders. Shadow Commander were half of the first run of City Commanders but more then the TFCon so around 1,000 if the first CC run was 2,000. City Commander including the second run is probably around 4,000-5,000. I can't remember how many BBTS got of Defender or the Bruticus crossfire but it's up there so if you include the other US retailers and overseas retailers a couple thousand or more is not a stretch.

    No idea about Takara but for Hasbro we can back into the number. There's 8,000-9,000 Walmart stores worldwide at least half of which are in the US, 1755 Target stores in the US, ~200 Zellers in Canada and 866 Toys R Us in the US. Let's call it an even 8,000 including online retailers and others. Let's assume that each store gets on average five cases of each assortment with two figures per case for a total of ten. That makes a run 80,000 figures. Five cases is about right for leaders and voyagers but deluxes, especially movie deluxes are at least four-five times that which gets you to 320,000-400,000 figures.

    A small run is probably 5,000-10,000 since Hasbro wants a run of at least that much to make it worth it. The seacons were split between BBTS in the US and overseas. It's also believable that each TRU in the US got on average around 4-5 MP Grimlocks.

    So. . . 10,000 Windcharger? Where are they? At 2 a case that makes it 5,000 cases. BBTS and EE are burning through them but probably only got 500. Another 500 to Canada? Another 2,000 to the UK and and the remaining 2,000 to Europe???

    Also, looking at those numbers you can see why Botcon/TFCC has so much problems getting factory time to produce their 1,000-2,000 run toys.

    Population Info:
    US - 311,000,000
    CAN - 34,000,000
    UK - 62,000,000
    Germany - 82,000,000
     
  18. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    Thanks for that insight. A very informative and easy to follow post, but, with one question. What are you refering to when you say TFCon?
     
  19. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    TFCon = Fansproject TFCon Powered Commander
     
  20. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Keep in mind the cost of a die for injection molding. They range from 20k for a small small die up to 200,000 for bigger and intricate dies. So those cost have to be recouped.

    I'd hazard a guess at a million units. If you figure 100 toys per wal mart store (about 3800 stores) and that's a rough estimate of 380,000 from one wave. It may be more or less per store. That's just wal mart.

    My guess is third parties have to sell at least 10 to 20 thousand units.
     

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