Hopefully ultra sized $27 TF toys aren't cancelled by hasbro/takara.

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Tigermegatron, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    Hopefully ultra sized $27 TF toys aren't cancelled by hasbro/takara.

    I've noticed that we haven't had a new mold ultra sized $27 TF toy for almost 2 years now. repaints don't count because there using the same mold.

    I really liked the ultra sized $27 TF toys. I saw so much potential in the toy size.

    Energon landmine & energon bulkhead really showed the future full potential of this ultra size.

    armada tidalwave was the utimate toy. it seperated into 3 vechicles,then 3 vechicles combined to form a super alt mode & super robot mode. in the vein of duocons,I consider armada tidalwave a triocon.

    The only ultra sized toy I hated was 2.0 powerglide. everything else was great.

    The only way I see the ultra sized $27 TF toys return. is if hasbro decides to add this size class in the TF3 movie toy line. which doesn't look like a possibility based off TF1 & TF2 not having any ultra sized $27 TF toys.

    Perhaps in late 2011 or 2012 onward we'll sell some ultra sized $27 TF toys reuturn in the "TF Prime" toy line & maybe generations.
     
  2. Blitzving

    Blitzving Has issues...

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Posts:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    They might be. Economy sucks all over the damn world, toys cost money to make...bigger toys cost more money to make
     
  3. Foster

    Foster Super Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Posts:
    32,054
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +11
    I think Human Alliance will need to wrap up first before that size class returns. That would be the perfect size for a Generations Scorponok and Black Zarak remold, and a Powermaster Optimus Prime.
     
  4. Optimus Vader

    Optimus Vader Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Posts:
    3,983
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    They're ok.
     
  5. Brainchild

    Brainchild Dark Flame Master

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Posts:
    5,554
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +1
    Hey now, spending more money on children's toys will only help the economy.
    But yeah, it's all about profit.
     
  6. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    I'll totally agree that a updated homage super poseable new mold PMOP toy is long over due. a ultra $27 size or leader size would be the perfect fit for this toy.

    The energon toy line already created a amazing ultra sized $27 Scorponok toy. I don't see how hasbro/takara can top that design & have it be the same size class like the energon one.

    all that energon scorponok toy really needs is a decent repaint in 1987 G-1 colors.

    i'm not a fan of seeing repeated updated homages. I'd rather see another G-1 character get a chance at a new updated super poseable mold.

    If hasbro does create another new mold scorponok. i'd prefer 2 options. a voyager sized BW 1996 Homage new mold with the bee hand launching gimmicks. or leader/supreme sized city formers 1987 scorponok that has a transforming headmaster.
     
  7. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    well if any TF fan has noticed hasbro/takara created gigantic/exspensive sized TF toys for the TF3 2009 & 2010 movie toy lines.

    like leader sized prime,leader jetfire,leader starscream & leader megatron.

    Ultimate size Devestator,remolded ultimate size bumblebee.

    $59.99 BATTLE OPS Bumblebee.

    6 $29.99 human sized figures or bumblebee,sideswipe,jazz,barricade,skids & mudflap.
     
  8. Blitzving

    Blitzving Has issues...

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Posts:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    There is a HUGE difference between Supremes and Ultra classes. Supreme classes are bigger and cost more, yes, but much less of them are made than an Ultra class would be. If you go into a store now, you might see something like 7 Night Ops Ratchets (Voyager) ( or more because they're shelfwarmer), 4 or 5 Payloads (Voyager), and 1 or MAYBE 2 Supreme Starscreams.

    the giant bumblebee might get a few more than most because he's the mascot to the kid audience and Hasbro knows a kid would rather have a Bumblebee that is almost as big as he is, than a deluxe. Will that work? In some cases yes, But I'm guessing ol big ass bumblebee will be a shelfwarmer too (not to the extent of tuner mudflap but you get the idea)

    With Ultra class toys, Hasbro generally gives them about as many as they would Voyager toys (maybe a bit less, but there would be way more units to make than there would for a Supreme class)

    So Hasbro figures, why make this figure an ultra when we can just as easily make it a Voyager? We still get good voyager money for it and we don't have to pay what we would to make an Ultra class
     
  9. Ikkstakk

    Ikkstakk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Posts:
    6,002
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +196
    The fact that Leaders are $45, HA's are $29-$32, and Voyagers are... what, $19-$22 or so, leads me to believe that IF Hasbro brings back the Ultra class, they won't be $27 anymore. $32-$35 seems much more likely. I mean, HA figures are smaller than Ultra class and they're already more expensive than $27.
     
  10. barrelks

    barrelks Captain Funtastic

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Posts:
    9,109
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +12
    Those last Universe ones warmed the shelves pretty good. Can still find some of the Walmart Red Powerglides at one Wamart in the area, and the last time I came across Universe Onslaught he was $3 after being a holiday special at Walmart for $10. I just don't know how well the last round sold, and I wasn't into Transformers for any other Ultras.

    Don't really like the lights and sound gimics, and the last round just wern't complex enough IMO. That being said, I would love to get some characters who deserve Ultra or Leader size figures in my classics collection.
     
  11. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    I honestly think the classics 2.0 Ultra sized $27 TF toys killed any chances future Ultra $27 TF toys had of getting created.

    because the ultra sized $27 TF 2.0 toys didn't sell that well in stores & were major shelf warmers.

    due to key factors like:

    (1) extremly poor character choices. fans would have rather had galvatron,cyclonus & Rodimus Prime,shockwave or Sixshot.
    (2) the over all 3 2.0 ultra sized toys weren't that great. silverbolt had a extremly simple transformation & wore his alt mode on his back. powerglide's toy was a complete misproportion nightmare. the only decent mold was onslaught.
    (3)all 3 2.0 ultra sized toys received updated homage molds in the wrong size.
    compared to how they appeared in the 1984/85 cartoon,comics & toy line.
    silverbolt & onslaught should have been 2.0 deluxes. while powerglide should have been a legends sized 2.0 toy or a basic. or a extremly generous out of scale deluxe sized toy.
    (4) both 2.0 silverbolt & 2.0 onslaught received repeative updated homages. they already received decent toys in the energon toy lines as 5-in-1 combiners.
    (5)some don't like buying combiner toys/characters with the combiner feature cancelled out. had 2.0 onslaught & 2.0 silverbolt been combiners with 4 basics/deluxes sold seperatly both 2.0 toys would have sold better.
     
  12. Predakign2000

    Predakign2000 All Hail Unicron!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Posts:
    1,292
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Likes:
    +0
    Voyager and Deluxe size classes are just fine with me.
     
  13. Blitzving

    Blitzving Has issues...

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Posts:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    You're right.

    How many repaints were there of the same mold? Powerglide had like 3. white, Red (which is what he should have been in the first place) and Nemesis Powerglide

    Silverbolt 3 as well I think

    And Onslaught only had 2. Onslaught and some Autobot version of a G1 character I can't remember, or don't even know
     
  14. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    you know, I did notice that Takara/Hasbro made some of the TF1 2007 movie voyager a bit bigger like ultra sized. but sold them as voyagers. like ratchet & starscream. both were very tall,bulky & had tons of weapons/accessories.

    then in 2009 all the TF2 movie voyagers were back to there normal regular size. some were even smaller & less bulky than previous AEC Voyagers
     
  15. ectoneon

    ectoneon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Posts:
    1,489
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    Yeah but in the same 2007 line, we got blackout, a tiny voyager.
     
  16. Wollstone

    Wollstone Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    I don't see the need for Ultra class with Leader class around.
     
  17. Blitzving

    Blitzving Has issues...

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Posts:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    Because some characters don't suit the leader class. Hasbro won't give Leader class to a character that they feel won't sell for that price tag.

    Like Blackout. He's not really popular enough to warrant a leader class toy. But he would have been a lot better as an ultra class than a voyager
     
  18. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    TF 2007 Blackout had a extremly long alt mode. that transformed to a short voyager robot toy. the toy packaged in alt mode looked like it was squeezed in the box & barely got in there.
     
  19. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Posts:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +3
    also because for the most part hasbro only creates 2 leader sized toys per year ,sometimes/rarely 3 per year. optimus prime & megatron usually get leader sized toys per year. leaving little room for other TF characters to get a leader sized toy.
     
  20. ephbot

    ephbot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Posts:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Likes:
    +0
    I think what it comes down to is Return On Investment (ROI). I'm not sure of the exact figures, but suppose we did the following thought experiment: given that 1) Hasbro's largest consumer base are children, 2) Hasbro's first priority is to maximize profits, and 3) Hasbro isn't going to (purposely) make any size classes don't maximize 1) and 2), will Hasbro continue to make (blank) classes?

    So fill in the blank:
    Will Hasbro continue to make (Scout) class? Most likely, yes. Seems to be fairly cheap on their end--not too much fancy engineering, small (so fewer raw materials), and lowest price-point to get the segment of the population that can't/won't buy more expensive toys.

    Deluxe: I'm guess definitely; seems to sell the best out of any class by far, so even if the ROI was slightly lower on Deluxes than Scouts for whatever reason (raw materials, engineering, etc?), economies of scale more than makes up for the individual difference.

    Leader: Of course; my guess is that the ROI is the highest for this class, because the marginal costs are probably pretty low. The Leaders might take twice as much time to engineer than a Deluxe, twice as much materials (lowballing here) than a Deluxe, and cost Hasbro twice as much to make than a Deluxe--but they sell for 4 times as much. All this is subject to the actual costs involved, but my guess is that Leaders have the highest ROI.

    Now the grey area: Voyagers vs. Ultra. And I group the two together, because I think that's really what it comes down to, because the price-points are relatively close together; they inhabit the space between the $10 (what is it on average now? $12-$14) Deluxe that you might pick up for little Billy on the weekend and the $40-$45 Leader you'd get for him at Christmas (again, I know this time distinction means little to nothing for collectors, but I imagine that's how non-TF-literate parents see it).

    The $20-$25 Voyagers or the $25-$30 Ultras? Let's assume that the engineering costs are relatively similar--some Voyagers are hard to transform and Ultras easy, and vice versa. Ultras are slightly larger than Voyagers, but the main difference seems to be in the electronics you find on many modern Ultras. Although the marginal cost of plastic might have been negligible, the cost of electronics are probably higher.

    So here you have two classes where the price points are fairly close (~$5), but the costs of making one is significantly higher than the other. But as we see in Deluxes, that could definitely be made up through economies of scale? Do we have that?

    Not knowing the actual sales numbers, I'll guess that Voyagers sell more than Ultras. Or rather they should, from the price points. The two classes that Hasbro seems to want to sell the most are Leaders, because the ROI is the highest, and Deluxes, most sold. The introduction of a middle price point (Voyager or Ultra) will necessarily lower sales figures in each respective class, but will hopefully increase total sales (say, for all those events between "Weekend shopping excursion" and "Christmas").

    However, the key point seems to be that this price point should take as few sales away from Leader, because the ROI is highest there. Price the middle point too high, and then you don't gain many sales, because the marginal cost is too low from middle point to Leader (e.g. will parent spend [Leader-$5] on a toy for a good report card? If it's only $5 less, why not get the Leader? OR, from the other point of view, that toy's expensive enough for Christmas=NO SALE).

    So it seems what Hasbro wants is a price point that is closer to Deluxe than Leader (i.e. a toy that is ~2x$Deluxe), so you get parents to spend the extra bit of money they were willing to for an achievement/event on a slightly larger toy, without reducing sales of Leader class and/or losing sales by pricing above parent's willingness to pay. That's the Voyager class. That would also maximize ROI for that price point because you don't have of the associated any costs for Ultra, such as the electronics, and you will (probably) have greater total sales overall.

    So that's my lunchtime thought experiment about it (as well as a review of bits from my first two years of microeconomics).

    tl;dr No Ultra to maximize ROI across all price points.
     

Share This Page