Honest question

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by SC0RP0N0K, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    Recently I've seen a lot of people saying that the movies and things like Animated (although I've seen this more in the movies) aren't supposed to be G1. My question is why do they go so far to be like G1 when they don't want to be compared to G1? Why in the movies do they go so far as to make Peter Cullen the voice of Optimus and mention the Matrix, and keep saying "More than meets the eye" ad nauseum? Why in both Animated and the movies do they use many of the G1 names but go in completely different directions with the characters? I'm not saying change isn't good, but it seems like they are only putting this stuff in to get the people who loved G1 on board. I see this happening in the G.I. Joe line as well, and it just doesn't make sense. The only reason I could see someone doing that is to bank on the nostalgia factor. If you intend to bank on nostalgia to sell a movie, then why change so much? Honestly from what I've seen of the movies they could have just put random names on the robots and called it some generic robot movie name and I would have still gone to see it, and it probably would have been better because the whole time I wouldn't have been trying to match it to what I loved in G1.

    Again, this is just a question, I really don't care if you liked the movies, or Animated, or whatever, or not.
     
  2. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    You hit it pretty well with Nostalgia, but it's also just attempts to bring in us older fans, while appealing to a younger generation. Some of it is also just homage to what came before. Doesn't bother me really as I'm fine with new characters bearing classic names and plots that find their origins in those classic series. I just want those new characters to actually have personalities and not be just background characters.
     
  3. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I understand that, but it totally invites criticism from the people who remember G1 fondly and expected more than just a passing wink to the fans. Like I said, change isn't bad, but why change it that drastically when you are banking on the fond memories of a past generation to put asses in the seats. Although I wasn't really a Beast Wars fan, I liked how they explained using the same, or similar names to their G1 counterparts which still allowed them to be completely different. I personally felt that was a perfect solution.
     
  4. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    Well, as far as I'm concerned, the movies are the most blatantly G1 thing since G1, but that's entirely subjective, of course.

    The overwhelming number of fan nods & homages in recent years (starting all the way back in BW, really) show that there are fortunately a lot of dedicated people behind the scenes who DO want to create something meaningful and long-lasting. That and the fact that any effort whatsoever has been made to create some level of continuity over the years is a bonus, really.

    Personally, after 25+ years of being a fan, I've discovered the best way to enjoy TFs is to put your feet up, watch it all happen, and buy the toys you like without getting too overly attached to any one character, concept, or line. Doing that will only lead to disappointment.
     
  5. iconscons

    iconscons Well-Known Member

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    Its a balancing act. Recreate g1 and you don't bring in new people (kids). Create something completely completely completely new, and you lose all the old fans as well. So they figure

    20% nostalgia can tempt the old fans to stick around and learn to like the...
    80% new stuff.

    Maybe it's 10/90 or 40/60...but you get my point.
     
  6. ORIO

    ORIO Plant-Based Bot Super Mod News Staff

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    Well freakin' said my man.

    And isn't it weird to say "way back in BW"? Geez. Seems like only yesterday... I'm old.

    But to the OP, the movie and animated based everything off of Transformers as a whole, with g1 probably being a prime (no pun intended) jumping off point.
     
  7. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like I said, I get why they do it to a degree, but I guess to me it's frustrating, but maybe that's because I was there for the start. It is hard for someone who is familiar with the characters to see them acting different or in some cases designed different especially when you go into a movie that promotes the nostalgia factor as highly as TF1 and 2 and the upcoming GI. Joe movie and then seeing nothing really tying said movie to what you remember other than names and some "in" jokes.

    On a slightly side note. I wonder how many newer fans (kids) would enjoy a straight G1 adaptation any less if it was presented as a whole big explosion, big budget blockbuster with the media blitz that the new movies provided. I have a 7 year old nephew that LOVES to watch the old G1 cartoons almost as much as I do. I also find it odd that a movie that intends to bring a new younger target audience in would have the adult "humor" and scenes that the new TF movies do, and that I'm sure the new GI Joe movie will have. Again, I'm not criticizing the movies I'm just questioning the thought process behind it.
     
  8. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    I mean, I would have wet myself if they'd said, "Bring in Sideswipe" and a friggin red Lamborghini came roaring around the corner (maybe with a yellow one close behind!) :lol  But "new Sideswipe" is still pretty sharp. Just gotta roll with it, IMO... or be angry and dissatisfied with things all the time.
     
  9. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    Part of the reason is to protect their intellectual property.
    If Hasbro didn't reuse names, they can lose the copyright to another company. For instance, they had to use Shockblast instead of Shockwave for several years for this very reason. If I recall correctly, Hasbro actually lost the rights to Bumblebee's name for a time, too.

    Another reason is interpreting the character to offer something new.
    This could be anything from changing the appearance to tweaking his personality. In G1 itself you have characters that are portrayed very differently in both the Marvel comic and Sunbow cartoon, like Shockwave and Blaster. Why should such wholly different characterizations in the same franchise be permissible, compared to having a whole new franchise offering a new take on Transformers?
     
  10. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    I'm with you my man. I, like the thread starter, have been on board since the beginning. I'm 30 now...
    I find that just about every character in the movie-verse has their G1 personality and don't understand how others claim otherwise. It forces me to question just what they really remember about G1 Transformers.
    While I, like everyone else, would have LOVED to have Tracks be the Corvette, Sideswipe was an excellent choice. We cannot expect the characters to be in the same form they've been in since 1982. However, you'll find that most of them are. Yet how many complaints did we all read that Ironhide wasn't red, BB wasn't a VW Bug and so forth...
    Come on, Ironhide looks very cool and is a bad ass soldier. How is that not like G1 Ironhide? BB may be a Camaro ( Awesome Car ) and a better fighter, but he was always with Spike/Sam in G1, here he's his guardian. Great fit and G1 rooted. I could list every character and their likenesses but I'm sure it's been done 100 times over.
    I just don't see how people who claim to be all G1 fail to make these obvious connections.
     
  11. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    Now that's a great answer. I honestly hadn't thought of that. Although I still would have rather seen "new" transformers in the movie, and then had them reuse the names in a new toy series or something. Or else do like Beast Wars did and use the same names but better explain why they weren't the G1 equivalents. But what's done is done.

    Personally, the differences in the comic and cartoon kinda bothered me too, but on the whole only a few Transformers (that I can remember) acted out of character between the two medias. I kinda chalked it up to that maybe they would have acted that way in the cartoon more if they had more screen time devoted to them. For instance Shockwave and Blaster didn't get near the screen time as their Marvel comics counterparts. Maybe the Marvel comics just got to expound on their true nature more. I will admit it's been a long time since I've read the comics and I'm sure there are some issues I missed so I could be way off base here, but that's the sense I got from what I remember.
     
  12. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    I'm with you on the comics. It really kept me from getting into them That and I HATED the artwork..
     
  13. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    Also you have to consider that in a SHOW you have the time to go into character explanations at length. However in a MOVIE you only get a few seconds, to a minute. If that.
     
  14. jorod74

    jorod74 Psycholagnist (Ret.)

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    All i ever expected from TFTM & RotF was a chance to see the Personality in the Characters.
    i don't care if SideSwipe is a gray concept car, but if they used his G1 personality, i am happy.
    Let Prime be himself.

    the problem i had with the movies was the new bots really didn't get to reveal themselves. What type of villain was Blackout?
    Besides being grumpy, what motivated Barricade?

    TFA had 3 seasons to do that with the main roster, but the characters in the background that they teased us with, didn't. Sigh.

    G1 was the logical place to start with the new lines.
    they are established, have recognition and gives Hasbro/CN/Paramount a guaranteed return and wiggle room to introduce new characters rather safely
     
  15. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    See my previous post.
     
  16. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    First off...awesome goalie helmet. I played goalie too before I busted my knees and I wish I would have had a helmet that amazing.

    Anyways, I see what you are saying about not expecting the characters to look the same and all that, and really that has never been my gripe with the movies, although I do despise their robot modes (I mean come on Megs has a metal vagina face with teeth). Honestly one of my favorite toy lines is Alternators which has Sideswipe as a Dodge Viper. It would be nice if they had made the colors a bit different so it was easier to tell them apart as opposed to 30 grey robots rolling around. Anyways, I will even agree that some of the characters are G1 rooted, but some are WAY off in some pretty significant ways. I've discussed that before so I'm not going to rehash that though.
     
  17. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    Thanks man..My new mask with an "Alitala" Wheeljack theme should be coming tomorrow:thumbs2: 

    Would you mind going over the personality differences you see with me? I have a good friend whom is so like you I feel like I'm talking to him now :)  And I've tried to see through his eyes but cannot.
    Also I HATED WITH A PASSION the movie designs when they first were revealed. However after some changes were made, was able to dig them. To me at least, the designers made the Transformers look like a super advanced race of Alien Robots from Cybertron and not just a "man made" block bot that turns into a car in the most basic way possible.
    I'd really like to see your point of view if you wouldn't mind:cool: 
     
  18. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    My god I would KILL for a Wheeljack custom helmet. You gotta tell me where I can get one. I can't play anymore, but still perfect display piece.

    Well, the changes I see against G1 is (I really don't want to start an argument here about this, I'm just answering your question):

    Ironhide - Yeah he's cool and all, but in G1 I doubt he would be so clumsy like he is in the first movie, and I REALLY doubt his first instinct would be to just kill Sam's dog and parents because they either annoyed him or created a problem with Sam finding the eyeglasses. He went from holding Prime's beliefs that all life is sacred to shoot first and ask questions later. If I remember correctly Ratchet was also a bit gun ho when it came to blasting things during that part too.

    Bumblebee - While I admit I LOVE the new Camaros, I just don't see him as a bad ass, especially in the G1 series. He was Sam/Spike's guardian kind of, but he was a weak character better suited to spying than actual combat. He was always the bot that the younger kids could relate to and now he's just another bad ass robot. This update I didn't mind as much for some reason, but it's still wildly different from how he was in G1.

    Prime - Well this caused a LOT of debate in the last post, but I feel when he executed Demolisher once Demolisher was no longer a threat was against his normal hero status and something he would have never done in G1. While I have no qualms about Prime killing someone I just feel that it would be a final option for him and not something he would do while the enemy was already subdued no matter what had happened previously.

    Megatron - I doubt he would be so subservient to The Fallen, I mean in the '86 movie he back talked Unicron for godsakes. This again was minor and didn't really bother me too much, but it is a difference.

    Most of the other bots I can't really say because they never really got much screen time or explanation into their characters. I agree with what you said about how it being a movie, they don't really have time to delve too deep into their characters, but I do believe if they would have cut maybe an explosion or two, or gave a little less screen time to Sams's mom eating a pot brownie, or well a lot of of scenes that weren't really necessary to the overall story, maybe they could have had more time for character introduction.
     
  19. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

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    Thanks for the list my man! The mask is more like an ALITALA racing helmet, just in red/white/blue instead of green to match my gear. Only TF fans will recognize it I think. But it's all good:) 

    While I loved the scenes with Sam's mom and such, I agree that they could have been shorter and fewer in between. I believe these scenes will be far less in TF3. Most people here don't get Bay. But I do and see what he's doing and how's he's setting things up. That doesn't mean that there will be a focus on Barricade, Bonecrusher etc, but will be more attention paid to the bots coming in for TF3.
    I'm not going to say I agree/disagree on your lists as we could battle for weeks and never agree :) 
    But I thank you for answering my question in the same manner my friend would have :lol 
    Thanks bro.
     
  20. SC0RP0N0K

    SC0RP0N0K Well-Known Member

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    No problem at all man. And honestly I wouldn't mind you and I going back and forth on the topics I mentioned. And really the point isn't to really agree, it's just to share ideas. Arguing can be quite fun as long as it remains civil and respectful. I think it could really be fun and not devolve into a flame fest the way my other thread did, which I admit was partially my fault since I let myself be baited into it. Anyways, np on making the list for you. =)

    Honestly I really didn't mind the movie all that much. It was a dumbed down summer blockbuster, but I did wish it would have been so much more since The Dark Knight was a summer popcorn flick that was actually smart. As for not understanding Bay, well I feel he cares more about explosions and pandering to that sort of audience than he actually cares about storyline. It's kind of like he feels that the robots are unimportant as long as he packs as many of them in there as possible and they allow him the ability to set up huge special effects. I can't blame it all on him though since TF2's box office numbers say that's what a lot of people want, but I just feel like it could have had that draw and still be a more intelligent movie. Hopefully I'm wrong and TF3 will be more like you think it will be.
     

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