Honest Question About Yamato

Discussion in 'The Toyark' started by pcsguy88, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. pcsguy88

    pcsguy88 I'm a Toys R Us kid TFW2005 Supporter

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    Ok, I've had my 1/60 YF-19 for a week now and have spent some quality time with it. I wanted to get some honest feedback from Yamato owners of any 1/60 or 1/48 figures. I'm not looking for how kewl it looks or it's my favorite character, I'm looking for responses on the actual product. I posted this at TFW2005 because I know most of us have a couple Masterpieces or other $100+ figures from other companies and we love robots for robots, not hyperfocused on Macross. Anyways, I'd love to get your reactions of when you first opened that GIANT Yamato box and then your impressions after owning it for a while.

    I'll start:

    I have been lurking around giant robot boards since purchasing Alt Smokescreen and the original 20th Prime from WM a few years back. I have always loved TF's and built many Robotech models in the 80's, but lost interest when I got my first Nintendo. After getting my first two toys in 10's of years, I quickly remembered my passion for these transforming puzzles and began searching for other brands/series from my childhood. I ran across the Toynami 1/55 MP Veritechs and now own 3 of them, never paying more than $40 MISB off Ebay for them. I thought they were great, but not quite MP Prime. I then found Macrossworld and read about Yamato and their supreme rule over all transforming things and lusted after those insanely expensive pieces of plastic, thinking they would blow Prime out of the water. When I saw BT-18 prices skyrocket while mine was in the mail, I knew this was my chance to get a Yamato for a reasonable price, so I took it.

    When I opened the shipping box and saw the real package, I had to change my pants. After that, I opened the top flap and peered at the beautiful YF-19 sitting just out of reach behind the protective plastic. Freeing the bird from it's packaging, I frowned at the plastic feel and overall lightness of it. No, biggy, the engineering is mindblowing, right? I immediately began transforming him, suffering none of the known QC issues, and studied him in bot mode. He seems awfully plain. Again, no worries, he's made by the same guy who did MP-03, so he has to be as good. After grabbing MP-03 and MP-06, I feel the noticable difference in weight and overall detailing. My heart began to sink. This YF-19 is designed by the same guy, is the same size, has no panel-lining, is made of cheap feeling plastic and costs twice as much? Huh? And to make matters worse, none of the parts seem finished. Lot's of jaggies need sanding, panels don't quite line up and the bot mode is floppy and unposable. Now reading this, you would think I hate the YF-19, but I actually think it is really inovative and has a wicked alt mode, but for almost $200? Thank god he only cost me the $75 I paid for BT-18. When compared to MP-03 and MP-05, easily the two most complained about MP figures, the YF-19 loses badly. It has less parts, less engineering, less detailing, less paint, and feels even more fragile. The YF-19 is a beautiful design I would be willing to pay under $100 for, but Yamato is frickin nuts for charging so much more.

    Do all Yamato's suffer from this cheap feel? Do you Yamato owners feel bent over since you really have no other place to obtain Macross items from? Do you continue to purchase more of them? How do you think they compare to the $100 MP's from Takara? Do you only defend Yamato to defend your decision for spending such large quantities of cash on something that other companies are selling for half the price?

    And no, I will not be getting rid of my precious YF-19. :)  That YF-22 kinda looks interesting.....
     
  2. tentagil

    tentagil Well-Known Member

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    And thus why I stopped buying Macross figures and sold off the ones I had. They simply aren't worth the price. Of course neither are the Toynami Robotech figures that I'm getting ready to get rid of. Thing is that these so called "Collectable" items seem to all have that same cheap feel to them. They look great but you'd think for the price that they could use better materials and make them a little sturdier.
     
  3. SharkyMcShark

    SharkyMcShark Hi. I'm better than you

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    Theres no doubt that the YF-19 is a sexy looking jet robot thingo. I'm actually waiting until after my finals are finished in November and I was thinking about splashing out on one for Christmas. I hope it's worth the outlay.

    It's kind of ironic that Macross/Robotech/Whatever else they're called fan's main criticism of Transformers is that they're undetailed, and marketed at the lowest common denominator (kids), and so therefore lack the style, finish, and sophisitcation of Veritechs, but a relatively objective source (ie original poster) claims otherwise.
     
  4. Phy

    Phy I want... ROOM SERVICE!!

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    About the panel-lining thing - in a lot of its production art, the YF-19 is very sparsely lined. Not so for, say, the VF-0, which did end up pretty well lined in a lot of places.

    I don't know about cheap, but my VF-0 does feel more fragile than, say, MP03 - although it didn't crack along a wingroot joint the second time I transformed it. It has had an arm off for the past half-year, though, because I found stress marks in the shoulder joint and haven't got around to fixing it. Quality-wise, the VF-0 isn't a toy. It's a lot closer to an assembled model kit, and I'd almost prefer they shipped it unassembled.

    One problem I see with Yamato VF's, as opposed to Transformers, is that the Yamatos are designed to approach the lineart as closely as possible. In doing so, they create a lot of contrast between part size. You have bulky arms, legs, and torsos, moving around on very thin spars and small hinges, which creates a greater potential for stress. It might be ok for a fullscale vehicle, built out of lightweight high-tensile alloys, but when it's made of plastic at 1/60th the size, it suffers. With transformers, which are almost always designed with play in mind, all parts are much closer in size, which implies a more even load distribution. Also, the crisp plastic on the VF-0 that takes such fine panel lines seems more brittle than that of the average TF.
     
  5. pcsguy88

    pcsguy88 I'm a Toys R Us kid TFW2005 Supporter

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    Brittle is the perfect word for Yamato's plastic. I won't compare regular TF's to them, but the two MP F-15's by the same designer are hard to ignore. The YF-19's plastic feels so thin, even in areas that it could be beefed up like the sliding back/torso thing. I love everything about the toy, but I just can't grasp the pricing/quality when directly compared to the MP TF line.

    As far as regular TF detailing being sparce, the movie line has put a nail in that coffin for the time being. Check the Custom's pages for any of the repaints on LDR Brawl for evidence of this statement.

    tentagil, I have the 2nd and 6th versions of Toynami's VF-1s and feel they are sturdier and incorporate approximately 738% more diecast than the YF-19. I'm prolly going to bias this entire thread with this statement, but I prefer the Toynami simply because I can handle them like a toy, not a Ming vase. Don't get me wrong, the Yamato's are far more complicated and attractive, but I do like to "play" on occasion. I will be playing with my YF-19 only because I did not pay anywhere near full price. In fact, if I did pay full price, I would be kicking myself everytime I walked by a mirror.

    I think I now understand Macrossworlds' members pain. So sexy, so flawed.
     
  6. Knightdramon

    Knightdramon Hasbro LIES to the US

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    First of all, both MP-03 and YF-19 linearts were designed by the same person, not the actual toys. Furthermore, Kawamori could do anything he wanted with the YF-19 [it's his mecha, after all) while he simply re-designed Starscream. The actual toys were manufactured by different companies and lastly, the YF-19 lineart was designed sometime in the early nineties.

    With that out of the way, I believe the best Yamato Macross figure so far is the 1/48 VF-1. They're nicely detailed, very fun to transform and even have two separate accessories packs that can be incorporated to their frames. Articulation is nicely plentiful and they're the cheapest Yamato has to offer.

    The VF-0 series is an improvement of the VF-1 mould in all aspects-it perfects articulation, transformation and has none of the backpack fragility problems its predecessor had; if only the plastic used for the ball joint on the shoulder and the casing for the arm didn't react to each other and crack, it'd have been perfect. The first VF-0S had very floppy limbs, subsequent releases were fixed. The Shin combo has supposedly fixed arms, as well as all re-releases after that.

    The newly released Sv-51 gives off the most bang for your money, as it comes with lots of accessories and a display base. Fan reaction is positive so far, with very few lemons in-between. It's also the biggest Yamato release so far, and the most expensive one.

    The YF-19 is hailed as the second best Yamato figure from Macross fans. All quirks (not serious issues) were remedied with the Fast Pack bundle. It's fun to transform, easily more complicated than MP Starscream and the end result is more poseable.

    As for Yamato being the only manufacturer bringing Macross items to the public, that's not entirely true. There's the toynami superposeables that are priced at 20 USD, bandai re-issues their 1/55 valkyries once in a blue moon and then there's the most recent revoltech valkyries.

    Hope this clears up most of the confusion and for the record, I'm very wary of Yamato. I only have two VF-1 valkyries and the two accessories packs and am very pleased so far, but until we have solid proof of the fixes, I'm not touching the VF-0. The other two "big" releases are on my must list, though.
     
  7. pcsguy88

    pcsguy88 I'm a Toys R Us kid TFW2005 Supporter

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    Knightdramon,

    I know about Bandai and Toynami, owning 3 of them myself, but Toynami to a Macross fan is equivalent to pork to a muslim and how many times can you buy Bandai's 20yr old mold. I guess I meant Yamato is your only choice for anything new.

    Thank you for all of the info you provided, you clearly know your stuff and I trust your experiences with the figures you own. I've been lurking at Macrossworld for about 3yrs, so I know the issues with the releases. Glad to hear the SV-51 is doing well so far. I will definately look for Graham's review. The only thing I disagree with you on is that the YF-19 is more complicated than MP-03. I'll give it a tie, but they both do some innovative chest transformations. MP-3's alt mode wins for details like the radar, airbrake, engine covers and overall detail. YF-19's alt mode is sexier, but very plain with only the cockpit gimmick.

    I guess my question to you is, do you think anything beyond the VF-1s are worth the price?

    I so wanted the YF-19 to be perfect, perfect enough to convince me to spend globs of cash on their future models. Like I said earlier, my YF-19 suffers none of the QC issues, but overall, he feels cheap when compared to the MPs that he is proudly standing next to.
     
  8. Knightdramon

    Knightdramon Hasbro LIES to the US

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    Well, to be honest, I don't own a YF-19 (yet), but I've watched the transformation video and it seems more complicated than any of my F-15 masterpieces. For the record, the 1/48 VF-1 does have all the gimmicks of the MP-3 and MP-6 and is sturdier.

    I do believe that once they fix all the damn issues of the VF-0, it's going to be well worth the asking price. The SV-51 is also a piece of beauty, but I'd personally wait a good 4 months before purchasing one, just in case the plastic "melts" again. I'd personally shell out good cash for the YF-21 once it's released. If you're a fan of the VF-1, do get an 1/48 (very few variations have yet to be released) for sure.
     
  9. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    As beautiful as Yamato's Valks are...IMO they're way overpriced but on the other hand there's Toynami (nt including Bandai)...so IMO, Yamato is still the best we got.
     
  10. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

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    The YF-19 first release is... well, not that great. Looks awesome, but is very loose and very fragile. Definitely not worth the $200, sad to say. Supposedly, the Fast Pack bundle is better, though.

    The 1/48 VF-1s, though... they are rock solid. Very poseable, hold together very well, looks AWESOME. I heard that the very first releases (Hikaru and Max VF-1As, IIRC) had a few issues, but they have very much been fixed. Excellenct figures and, IMO at least, well worth the money. I don't know about the GBP armor, but the FAST Packs are really nice.
     
  11. QuinJester

    QuinJester T. Bison

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    I've long since stopped touching my Yamato 1/48 VF-1J for the simple reason that it feels so fragile. Perhaps the fact that a piece of it BROKE is affecting my mind on that, but the plastic on it definately feels thinner and more fragile than the average transformer. Its aelerons and flaps on the wings also were extremely loose and floppy out of the box, and its arms don't have any real secure locking mechanism into the undercarriage and will inevitably flop a little bit if you play around with it in Jet mode.

    My MP Skywarp has absolutely zero of the issues I have with my VF-1J. :/

    Ive been tempted so many times by the YF-19 (one of my favorite mechas, so the fact that I haven't got one is rather telling) but have yet to jump because of both my experience with my 1/48 and the track record of design issues present in other the YF-19 and other Yamato figures. For a good time, look up comments and reviews of the Yamato Garland.

    What it does boil down to with the Yamato vs. Transformer designs is that Yamato is a smaller company, with smaller production runs and higher costs. They make nice stuff, but inevitably there will be more issues that slip through the cracks. It's not like MP figures are exempt, either...

    I've lost track of what I was trying to say.
     
  12. Knightdramon

    Knightdramon Hasbro LIES to the US

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    I have two VF-1 (1/48), Kakizaki and Max ver, purchased in that order. Of the two, Max was loose right out of the box, parts were not glued together properly and I had to do lots of modding on joints to make it better, and I still dislike the floppiness.

    Kakizaki's as tight as a figure can ever be. The arms lock on the inner side of the legs, not super glue tight, but tight enough not to move around as I jiggle the figure.

    Truth be told, you have to be very careful when applying the fastpacks on the back pack of the figure as too much pressure on the wrong side will snap the piece, I'm guessing that's your broken part.

    For the record, I'm not defending Yamato or anything. I made it clear that I'm not touching a VF-0 because of all the faults, but the 1/48 VF-1A Kakizaki I have, along with its fastpacks and GBP armour, is the figure that drives the reasoning behind my words. If both Kakizaki and Max were loose, I guess I'd be saying different things altogether.
     
  13. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    I have som Yamato's, but they are really only for display or being boxed. EverytimeI handle them I fear breaking something. I'd rather go with Bandai's more sturdy feel eventhough they aren't as articulated or detailed.
     
  14. ckhtiger

    ckhtiger old skool fool

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    this thread makes me want to hug my 1/72 diecast macross plus yammies that I got for $70 each. a great way to love the 19 and 21 for a decent price.
     
  15. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    Before I post this, let me just say that I am not speaking on behalf of everyone here. I am about to say some very mean things about Yamato, and every time I do, five other people quote me and disagree. I respect that a lot of people have had positive experiences with Yamato, but that doesn't change the fact that all my Yamatos have turned me off to this series. I don't doubt for a second that some people here have Yamatos with tight joints, and I'm not trying to fight with you. Just sharing my own opinion.

    I own the VF-0 and VF-1. Everything I say here applies to both of them, but they especially apply to the VF-0S.

    It's like transforming an eggshell. The plastic is so brittle. Master Grade Sazabi is the most expensive model kit I own, and probably the rarest, and if I had to bet on which one survives being thrown against a wall, I'd bet on Sazabi. There's a big problem when a factory-constructed toy is less durable than something you had to build yourself. Yamato's products are fragile. FRAGILE. I'd say they're about on-par with MP-05 in terms of fragility.

    (I've been mocked for the brick-wall analogy, so let me make it clear that I do not throw my expensive toys against brick walls in my spare time. Just trying to add some color in my explanation of how even a factory-assembled toy is less durable than one I had to put together myself)

    Let's talk about poseability next: The arms do not want to stay up. VF-1's arms are...okay, I guess, but VF-0's arms are unforgiveable. They literally have no tension in them. ZERO. NONE. If I were to pick up my VF-0 by the foot and dangle it upside down, the arms would freely swing due to nothing but the force of gravity. You can forget about getting my VF-0 to hold its gun in any cool pose, but before you worry about that, you have to consider that my VF-0 can not grip its own gun.

    Let's talk about the metal hip-bar that swings into place to transform the legs. I don't think a lot of thought was put into this, because we have plastic-on-metal hinges here. I've transformed my VF-1 dozens of times, and I've transformed my VF-0 maybe four or five times, and they both have minimal tension in the hips. The tension isn't completely gone, mind you, but if I were to put any of them in a pose, if I were to leave the room and come back 5 minutes later, they'd be bent over backwards in some bizarre Silent Hill-like monster pose.

    Also, I'd like to point out that the VF-0's shoulders are on the end of a plastic piece that has to BEND for you to transform it. That's just ASKING for breaking the toy.

    Now, let's talk about how well the thing holds together in plane mode. This applies more for the VF-0 than the VF-1, although the VF-1 suffers from this too. Basically, I know I'm doing the transformation right. All the pegs fit into the holes, all the limbs line up, and I've got all the panels and stuff in the right place. When I take my hand away, it falls apart like a fistful of sand. I'm not doing anything wrong with the transformation...and if I were to put a rubber band onto my Valkyrie, the thing would stay together. The toy just WON'T STAY TOGETHER if you take your hand off. Imagine, say, transforming Classics Jetfire, putting the arms where they're supposed to be, and they slip out of that slot each time you take your hand away.

    In summary, my opinion based on my own experience is DO NOT GET ANOTHER YAMATO PRODUCT EVER AGAIN.
     
  16. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

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    Which VF-1 do you have? My three Stealth VF-1Js are rock solid, except the one wing flap that I broke off. (Never try to pick your VF-1 by grabbing the wing flap...)

    I've heard that some of the earlier ones (the Max and Hikaru VF-1As) are extremely loose, among other QC problems.
     
  17. pcsguy88

    pcsguy88 I'm a Toys R Us kid TFW2005 Supporter

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    I'm glad I posted this here to get a good feel for Yamato without the fanboy response. From the sounds of it, everyone loves the way they look, but are extremely cautious when handling. Too bad.

    Anyone have a Toynami Alpha that they can comment on?
     
  18. Night Flame

    Night Flame TFW2005 Supporter

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    I guess I'm gonna go against the grain a bit and say that I don't feel the Yamatos I own are all that fragile. To me they're more along the lines of a completed model than a toy, and I wouldn't use them to stage battles with, or bang them into things, but I'm not afraid to handle them.

    I will say this though. Never buy first release if you're worried about fragility. I didn't buy a VF-1 1/48 until just last year. And I won't buy a 19 until the 20th anniversary version is released. I'm still kicking around which version of the VF-0 to get, though the VF-0A with accessories thingy is looking tempting.

    As far as weight goes, I don't use weight as a judge of quality. They went mostly plastic to keep the weight down so that they can hold themselves upright. Can you imagine trying to get one of the 1/48 VF-1s or a 1/60th VF-0 or YF-19 to stand up if it were mostly die-cast? They couldn't make joints strong enough for that.

    I won't say they're perfect, and they really need to do better than make first releases be public beta tests on toys that cost that much, but overall I'm happy that Yamato does repair problems with later releases rather than continuing to release new runs of the same toy with the same problems. And with caution and patience you can get the model jetbot you want without fearing breaking it. Should you have to wait and check reports on a toy that expensive? No. But you do have to wait, and you do have to research. And that's the most upsetting thing about Yamato to me. I'd love to grab the SV-51 right off the bat. Big, black and mean. But I'll likely wait for the red release or for another release down the line just because I know that first release is going to suffer some problems after months of play time. It's OK though. I'm used to waiting at this point.
     
  19. pcsguy88

    pcsguy88 I'm a Toys R Us kid TFW2005 Supporter

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    I just want dense plastic with some heft and thick enough to not glow when a flashlight is placed under it. I wish I had a need for a 1/48, but that would make my Toynami's useless.
     
  20. 04GHOST

    04GHOST Well-Known Member

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    I have the entire Robotech Masterpiece lineup and the Alphas are of the same quality of the VF-1's. I have heard of people breaking thiers while transforming them but mine are ok. Although I have only transformed them once then placed them back into their display boxes. I can not wait for the Cyclones later this year.

    As far as Yamato 1/48 VF-1s, I love mine but totally agree that they are fragile. Mine are displayed only and have been transformed only once. I have none of the loose joints that are spoken of though and I have 4 of the VF-1's ( Hikaru VF-1A w/FP, Max VF-1A w/FP, Roy VF-1S w/FP, and VF-1J w/GBP armor). Other than the price, I have no complaints really on the Yamato 1/48 VF-1's. I plan on getting the Hikaru VF-1S w/FP and 1/60 YF-19 soon as well as the 1/60 YF-21 when its released. Yamatos are meant to be displayed and not really played with IMO which is too bad considering that they are so expensive. You would think that they could take more abuse for the price.
     

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