Homepathy?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bryan, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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  2. Midnight

    Midnight Nerdicon

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    At least no one will get hurt.lol

    I think i'll stick to stuff that works.
     
  3. FreshDebesh

    FreshDebesh <b><font color=brickred>oye chak de phatte!</font> Veteran

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    Its homeopathy and I think its a good adjunct to whatever regular medicines a person takes. Shouldn't be a substitute though.
     
  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Every time I hear about homeopathy, I figure people are going to be talking about herbal and natural remedies and traditional medicine, which I figure probably have some actual merit. But they rarely are, it's always about the idea of how extremely low doses of something can cure you and "water memory" and stuff.

    Are you saying this stuff actually works, FreshDebesh? Like, more than a placebo?
     
  5. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We EXIST!

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    To be successful in using homeopathy requires a large commitment of time in research. Researching the medical problem you're having, researching herbs and other treatments that have been successful at treating or at least relieving symptoms, research on drug/herb interactions, research on chemical additives that may be included, research into how to acquire the best and purest, and ESPECIALLY research on the companies that put supplements out and/or make outrageous claims about whatever they sell. And you have to get into the habit of reading labels. For instance there's a juice 'health' drink that's got the name of some big name doctor/new age guy on it where the claims fall apart when you actually know what you're looking at on the ingredient label. And you have to be willing to buy the best you can afford, or make it yourself...AFTER RESEARCH.

    You can't just pop down to Walmart and buy a couple supplements with 'natural' or 'organic' or 'herbal' on the label...it doesn't work that way. Walmart stuff is crap. If you're serious about alternatives, you have to do the work to find the quality stuff. And if it doesn't work for you, back to the research.

    I've been using holistic supplements for myself and my cats for the last few years, tho I don't forgo all drugs, such as vaccines and Revolution for my current cat and antibiotics for me when needed. And yes, the herbal supplements we use do work for us. Because I research each and every one before I buy it.

    --Moony
     
  6. FreshDebesh

    FreshDebesh <b><font color=brickred>oye chak de phatte!</font> Veteran

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    Well, there's nothing in the literature that makes them a life changer as far as I know, but its one of those things that it can help some people, and some people it doesn't do anything. I kinda look at it like eating a hot dog. No one wants to eat mustard on its own. That's how homeopathic meds are. If you eat a hot dog, you can put some mustard on it to make the whole thing taste better. That's why I think as an adjunct, its not so bad. Again, its not something that might help in lots of people but it may be good for some. I see Ayurvedic medicine in much the same way. Then again, as physicians, we're taught to be culturally sensitive and crap.
     
  7. catch22

    catch22 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people refer to herbal medicines and such as homeopathy, even though that isn't what homeopathy is. I don't doubt that "homeopathy" gets slapped on the label of some herbal supplements as an advertising tactic, contributing to the confusion.

    Homeopathy is the second thing you described (extremely low doses). There's no peer-reviewed journal that says it has any stronger effect than a placebo.

    PubMed home

    homeopathy - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
     
  8. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Sorry, I'm still not clear here. Are you saying that the effects are psychosomatic and can be used to make other forms of treatment seem more acceptable, or that they have actual scientific/chemical benefits, if combined with more mainstream treatment?

    And are you talking about homeopathy, or traditional/herbal/"natural" medicine?
     
  9. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    It's a harmless placebo.

    Once you understand what's involved and how it's supposed to work, it becomes clear that homoeopathy is fairly crackpot stuff. It just doesn't make any sense.

    However, the placebo effect itself is not to be knocked.
     
  10. RoboticPlanet

    RoboticPlanet Exclusively Exclusive

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    This, all of it. I've mostly hear of homeopathy use in reference to the UK, not the US. I know there has been recent controversy over there on whether it should be covered by insurance. I've always assumed it's just not mainstream enough in the US to even be an issue. Perhaps this is why it's a common misconception that it's a synonym for herbal, etc remedies.
     
  11. Scantron

    Scantron Well-Known Member

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    I think homeopathy is an absolutely brilliant idea...for the people who are raking in money selling a placebo to the gullible. Other than the placebo effect, I don't think homeopathic "medicines" have any medical benefit whatsoever.
     
  12. FreshDebesh

    FreshDebesh <b><font color=brickred>oye chak de phatte!</font> Veteran

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    There's no real scientific studies that have been done to show that they have any physiological benefit. However, some people use it and do feel better. Whether thats on a psychological level or actual physical level depends on the person. Again, I don't know of any studies that proves or disproves the effectiveness. I'm speaking particularly of Homeopathic meds. As a physician though, we tend to lump homeopathic and herbal/natural together. We won't discourage a patient from taking something unless there is a known side effect that is dangerous. For example, if I have a patient who has Hemophilia and is an active bleeder, and he or she wants to take Gingko Biloba to strengthen his or her memory, I'm gonna advise against it because Gingko is also known to cause bleeding in some people. Hope that makes a little more sense.
     
  13. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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    You're not looking very hard, then.
    A systematic review of systematic reviews of homeopathy
    Homeopathy - Issues
    AMA - Report 12 of the Council on Scientific Affairs (A-97) (scroll down to the Homeopathy sub-header)
    Homeopathy for Childhood and Adolescence Ailments: Systematic Review of Randomized Clinical Trials ? Mayo Clinic Proceedings

    Look, let me clarify first. Homeopathy, specifically, means diluting substances down past the point where even a single molecule of said substance would be present in the "medicine".

    It doesn't mean herbal supplements or any of that stuff.

    There is evidence that many "natural" remedies may have useful effects due to specific chemicals which do not need to be processed out in order to be at least somewhat effective.

    That's fine. That makes some sort of sense. An unprocessed substance can indeed have medicinal value.

    Homeopathy, on the other hand, is pure, unadulterated junk that contravenes the known laws of chemistry and physics.

    Oh, and what sort of sleeping pill allows you to take an entire bottle of it and experience no effect whatsoever? One that doesn't work, is what.
    BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon - Homeopathy: The Test

    I am speaking purely about homeopathy here. That is nonsense. Natural remedies must be examined on a case-by-case basis and evaluated individually.

    - Coeloptera
     
  14. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Ok, yes, obviously if there are known side effects physicians should reccommend against the use of certain alternative medicines (though I didn't know that about ginko). Are there many "herbal" (For the sake of ease I'm going to use this term to define herbal, natural, and traditional treatment methods for the rest of the post) treatments that carry potential side-effects? If this is in, say, the form of a pill, are producers required to list these potential side-effects in the same way pharmaceutical producers are?

    And when you say you lump herbal remedies in with homeopathic, do you mean herbal remedies that aren't already used in modern medicine, or all herbal based remedies? I mean, there's likely a world of difference between stating dandilion tea will treat water retention, and stating willow bark could be used to cure a headache (as willow bark has been found to contain considerable quantities of acetylsalicylic acid). Or naturally based historical treatments, like opiate based painkillers, or queen anne's lace for birth control. Are there "herbal" remedies that are accepted in modern medicine, or have they all been replaced by synthesized or refined medications with greater effectiveness and less risk of side-effect? Are natural or traditional treatment options ever prescribed? Does it vary widely from doctor to doctor?

    Sorry if it sounds like I'm badgering you about this stuff, I just figure you'd know much more about it than the average user, and I've only got hearsay, trivial knowledge, and anecdotal experience to work with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  15. FreshDebesh

    FreshDebesh <b><font color=brickred>oye chak de phatte!</font> Veteran

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    Not a problem. The answer to the first question about the pharmaceutical companies that produce the side effect list for the "herbal" meds, is basically no. They're not FDA approved technically and so they don't have to list side effects like the FDA approved drugs have to list. You're kinda on your own when you take it. If there is an adverse reaction, sure you can sue the pharm company but the FDA is not gonna get involved since they didn't approve it.

    In this country, herbal medicine is not usually used very often, to be quite honest. At least not in my experience. Like someone else mentioned, it comes into play alot more in Europe and Asia. Homeopathic and Ayurvedic medicine is huge in Asia, particularly India and is often used side by side with the more well known "scientific" meds. It does vary widely from doctor to doctor. I remember my roomate and I had a patient who basically had hyperactive bowels and couldn't digest anything and keep it inside. So he prescribed "tincture of opium." Opiates have a quality of slowing down the bowel motility and since we had exhausted almost all other options, we tried it and it worked for a little bit. Would other doctors have done that? Maybe, maybe not. Every doc has their own style of managing.

    Often with docs in this country, if you have a headache and want to take willow bark cause of the ASA in it, we'll just say ok let's bypass that and just prescribe the 325mg of ASA. It really depends on the management style of the doctor and typically docs from Europe and Asia seem much more open about using it as an adjunct to more well known "scientific" drugs.

    There is a side effect list for other drugs and foods too, although I have to review them myself. I already mentioned the one about Gingko. Licorice in large quantities ups your aldosterone, which is a hormone in our body that increases our blood pressure. So that's bad in patients who have hypertension. The other popular herbal med is St John's Wort which has a bunch of side effects. It often lowers the effectiveness of other meds in conjunction with the cytochrome P450 enzyme pathway, which causes other meds to be broken down quicker. Its other big side effect is causing a serotonin syndrome which is life threatening and if you take any kind of anti depression drugs, can be fatal because of increased serotonin.
     

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